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rck_iceclimber9
May 15, 2005, 4:47 PM
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I have a... probably stupid question for people out there... but all my partners are gone for the summer and i was wondering on how exactly does one rope solo. I know there are many devices out there that are made for this sort of thing, but i was wondering other ways of doing it without those devices... say just using a gri gri.... but how would i do it and how does it work?
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tobym
May 15, 2005, 5:02 PM
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check the 'similar threads' shown up below :)
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boardline22
May 15, 2005, 6:17 PM
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great, great. Why don't people just climb and not worry about problems
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ihategrigris
May 15, 2005, 6:29 PM
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FOTH 7th ed pg 185-186
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mistertyler
May 15, 2005, 7:17 PM
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Unless you're absolutely adament about wanting to lead solo, I'd look into toprope soloing instead, which is far safer, much easier to partake in, and less prone to clusterf_cks. For toprope soloing, do a search to find the many threads that discuss its possible devices and techniques.
If you really insist on lead soloing, as someone already mentioned see the "similar topics" below. Forget FOTH pp. 185-186, as they do little more than define what solo climbing is. Just keep in mind that lead soloing can be a huge pain in the ass until you get a really good system down. (My first lead solo took about 4 hours to do --- finding a pitch that was within my limits and amenable to setting up a bomber bottom anchor, setting the system up, leading it, cleaning it, rapping it, etc.)
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treez
May 15, 2005, 7:38 PM
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I have a lot of experience lead soloing with the "soloist" by rock exotica. I only use it on bolted sport climbs that are easy for me, so I've never fallen on it. I use the first bolt for my anchor, making sure to pull through enough rope to rap from first bolt. I tie a bight and clip it to the first bolt with a locker. It's quickdraws from there. At the top I tie off, then pull the rest of the rope to feed it through the rap anchor. Rap and clean. When climbing, there can be some rope drag (you are pulling rope off a pile at the base), so often it is necessary to pull slack before making a move or clipping. It is good for excercise and rope handling skills, BUT I DON'T RECOMMEND IT anywhere near your climbing limit. BE AWARE!
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mistertyler
May 15, 2005, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: I have a lot of experience lead soloing with the "soloist" by rock exotica. I only use it on bolted sport climbs that are easy for me, so I've never fallen on it. I use the first bolt for my anchor, making sure to pull through enough rope to rap from first bolt. I tie a bight and clip it to the first bolt with a locker. It's quickdraws from there. At the top I tie off, then pull the rest of the rope to feed it through the rap anchor. Rap and clean. When climbing, there can be some rope drag (you are pulling rope off a pile at the base), so often it is necessary to pull slack before making a move or clipping. It is good for excercise and rope handling skills, BUT I DON'T RECOMMEND IT anywhere near your climbing limit. BE AWARE!
I'd thought about using your method for bolted routes, but I didn't like the idea of having to rely on a single bolt for an entire anchor. Do you back your bolt up?
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andback3
May 15, 2005, 9:39 PM
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well if you know trad and have some gear, you could back up the first bolt with your own pro. you could also back it up on a tree or something.
Another option I've seen is to tie the rope into something large (like your pack) below the bolt, and if it does break and you fall, you'll get caught on the next bolt (a biner will usually slide through, so you need something larger.
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treez
May 16, 2005, 1:06 AM
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No, I do not back-up the bolt. I figure that if it can hold a fall, it can hold a fall. The key to my system is to stay on climbs that are so easy and familiar to me that there is almost no risk of me peeling. I have done this a hundred times with no falls to test it out. If a hold broke or some other freak act of nature pulled me off, I'm pretty sure I would be caught. It is a risk I am willing to take. Whenever I want to climb something new or push my limits, I get a live belayer. Once again, it is a fun way to exercise and get really good at flaking and tossing rope.
You will want a BD chest harness to go with the soloist. It holds the biner the right way and is more comfortable when combatting the drag mentioned earlier. A prusik may be needed to unweight the unit if you do fall in a bad spot, BUT DON'T FALL. Especially head first. Please be carefull and have fun.
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andback3
May 16, 2005, 1:18 AM
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I don't know about you're I'm not gonna fall, so It's ok mentality...
Back in the day (so i hear, i wasn't there), people climbed on pitons and hemp, and hoped they didn't fall because their gear wasn't reliable.
Nowadays, for the most part, the idea is that our gear is good, and you can fall, so challenge yourself and get a better workout. And eventually you will fall. Just because a route is easy, doesn't mean to count on falling, because you will eventually fall on it. And it better hold you if you do, because most hospital emergency rooms are already too busy.
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treez
May 16, 2005, 1:30 AM
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If in doubt, don't.
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flamer
May 16, 2005, 9:37 PM
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In reply to: No, I do not back-up the bolt.
I rope solo quite bit, and do a fair bit on bolted climbs.
Only tying off the first bolt is stupid and dangerous.
There is an easy and simple solution, jujst tie off the first 2(or sometimes 3).
Tie off the first bolt as was previously stated, then when you get to the second bolt, pull up the slack so the rope comes taunt from the first bolt...throw on a locker....then clove hitch. BAM!!! 2 bolt anchor...not EQ'd per se....but better than 1!!!
josh
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trenchdigger
May 16, 2005, 10:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: No, I do not back-up the bolt. I rope solo quite bit, and do a fair bit on bolted climbs. Only tying off the first bolt is stupid and dangerous. There is an easy and simple solution, jujst tie off the first 2(or sometimes 3). Tie off the first bolt as was previously stated, then when you get to the second bolt, pull up the slack so the rope comes taunt from the first bolt...throw on a locker....then clove hitch. BAM!!! 2 bolt anchor...not EQ'd per se....but better than 1!!! josh
So if you go by this technique (or the previous) and you blow it just before the second or third bolt, you're taking a decent length, factor 2 fall onto a single bolt. :shock: No thanks...
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justafurnaceman
May 16, 2005, 10:17 PM
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Isn't that what the bolts made to do? Hold a fall. I read somewhere that the most force that a person can generate is 2000 lbs. no matter how far he falls. The bolts must be able to hold that much (or I hope).
I guess the issue is how to get the redunancy so that we're not depending on just one protection.
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trenchdigger
May 16, 2005, 10:36 PM
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In reply to: Isn't that what the bolts made to do? Hold a fall. I read somewhere that the most force that a person can generate is 2000 lbs. no matter how far he falls. The bolts must be able to hold that much (or I hope). I guess the issue is how to get the redunancy so that we're not depending on just one protection.
Please tell me you're joking...
You may be lucky enough for the bolt and your gear to hold the fall, but your body will definitely not appreciate having to absorb 9kN of impact force! And with no belayer to lower your destroyed self off the rock, you might just hang there in a stupor until the next group of climbers come by and lower your body down off the rock. :roll:
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ironmike
May 16, 2005, 11:05 PM
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I've been roped solong for over fifteen years using the Soloist. It takes time getting used to, and it takes forever to do a pitch since you need to clean if placing gear. You basically climb the pitch twice, so if you're doing multi-pitch it takes forever, but its fun. I wouldn't climb at your highest grade, Also use a locking biner.
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cito2
May 16, 2005, 11:18 PM
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If you have to ask , Have some one show you Simple in theory hard in the real world.
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shorty
May 16, 2005, 11:28 PM
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In reply to: I have a... probably stupid question for people out there... how exactly does one rope solo. I know there are many devices out there that are made for this sort of thing, but i was wondering other ways of doing it without those devices... say just using a gri gri.... but how would i do it and how does it work?
gri-gri setup -- The device must be rigged so that the anchor end of the rope goes to the "climber" diagram, not the "belayer's hand" diagram. You can think of this as you are belaying the anchor, if this helps.
anchor -- I'm with flamer on this one, as I don't like to rely on just one bolt. In theory, a good bolt in good rock has shear strength in excess of 5,000 pounds, but I like some redundancy in my anchors. Even the most experienced bolt setters make mistakes. When no other options are available, I have used flamer's suggestion of tying off to the 1st & 2nd bolts. The problem with tying off directly to any anchor is the potential for a factor 2 fall should you fall before the next clip. This potential exists whether it is the 1st bolt, the 2nd bolt, or just passing the anchors to clip the first bolt on a multi-pitch climb. Know your situation, assess the risks with a clear head, and climb within your limits.
backup -- Use a backup knot with the gri-gri. This is as simple as having a figure 8 knot (even an overhand knot should work -- in theory) clipped into your harness in the event the gri-gri fails. You will have to untie one knot and retie another as you progress, but this is part of soloing.
Rope soloing isn't very forgiving, so make sure you're rigging correctly every time. I recommend a hands on demo by someone who has done it before.
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mistertyler
May 16, 2005, 11:32 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: No, I do not back-up the bolt. I rope solo quite bit, and do a fair bit on bolted climbs. Only tying off the first bolt is stupid and dangerous. There is an easy and simple solution, jujst tie off the first 2(or sometimes 3). Tie off the first bolt as was previously stated, then when you get to the second bolt, pull up the slack so the rope comes taunt from the first bolt...throw on a locker....then clove hitch. BAM!!! 2 bolt anchor...not EQ'd per se....but better than 1!!! josh So if you go by this technique (or the previous) and you blow it just before the second or third bolt, you're taking a decent length, factor 2 fall onto a single bolt. :shock: No thanks...
These inherently higher forces are the reason why, for my first solo (no bolts - just gear), I was nervous enough that I set up a fully equalized 4 piece anchor with a 5th non-equalized piece as a "just in case" backup. Overkill, but when you don't have a belayer around overkill starts to sound reasonable.
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acrofobic
May 17, 2005, 12:00 AM
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You can use a screamer on the bottom bolt or I use this reusable via ferrata device with about 3 feet of rope to help reduce the force.
http://www.kong.it/doc408.htm
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healyje
May 17, 2005, 12:11 AM
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I've been rope solo free climbing for just under 30 years now and have to say it's always interesting to hear folks thoughts on the topic...
As for one-anything anchors, that's not my idea of a good time but if it were a relatively new 1/2" in good rock I might; but my anchors are typically set up this way: I clip into the anchor with a figure 8, and tie an alpine butterfly or figure 8 three feet up from the anchor end of the rope, and then I put a screamer between the two. That way you have a screamer to lessen the load on the anchor and the rope to back it up. On reaching the second piece I clip the rope in normally and then put a longish prusik on the rope from the second piece to hold the rope up so the anchor is aimed right and ready.
As for being slow, once I'm in a groove with it I can climb about 1/4 or 1/3 faster than an average party of two even with climbing it twice. You can do that if you are organized about your anchor setups and re-racking when cleaning. Oh, and I carry the rope in a small backpack and feed it out of there through a biner on my shoulder strap. I also use an unmodified grigri because I've been too lazy to cut the tab above the clip hole out. And I also try to solo pretty close to my normal climbing capability and do fall if slightly less often as I do climbing with a partner.
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healyje
May 17, 2005, 12:16 AM
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In reply to: You can use a screamer on the bottom bolt or I use this reusable via ferrata device with about 3 feet of rope to help reduce the force. http://www.kong.it/doc408.htm
Glad to hear from someone that's tried one of these - I've been meaning to do that for some time...
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coldclimb
May 17, 2005, 12:21 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: No, I do not back-up the bolt. I rope solo quite bit, and do a fair bit on bolted climbs. Only tying off the first bolt is stupid and dangerous. There is an easy and simple solution, jujst tie off the first 2(or sometimes 3). Tie off the first bolt as was previously stated, then when you get to the second bolt, pull up the slack so the rope comes taunt from the first bolt...throw on a locker....then clove hitch. BAM!!! 2 bolt anchor...not EQ'd per se....but better than 1!!! josh
Having done three or four toprope solos, I am now an internet expert on the subject! :D
This seems like a good idea. Thanks for the tip Flamer, I had been wondering about backing up that first bolt when I get into leading solo, since a lot of the time you can't, really.
Edit: Just saw the post above, on the second page. A valid concern, I suppose. Guess you'd better not fall before the second bolt. :wink:
And Healyje, do you use backup knots as most every source says you must, with loops hanging down from your harness?
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healyje
May 17, 2005, 1:37 AM
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In reply to: And Healyje, do you use backup knots as most every source says you must, with loops hanging down from your harness?
Hmmm, I do when I'm aiding or jugging, but free climbing I typically don't as I'm usually moving too fast. There are certain situations where I do, but for the most part I relentlessly monitor the harness/grigri/rope orientation at all times. Anytime I feel any aspect of that orientation may be threatened during a sequence I'll back it up. Sometimes with a Petzl Shunt, sometimes with a clovehitch. I know that's an ambiguous answer and it's one that depends on years of experience - I'd recommend anyone starting out back things up with a clove, figure 8, or Shunt. I'd also always back up with a knot if I was letting the rope hang back to the ground versus carrying it in a backpack.
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coldclimb
May 17, 2005, 1:41 AM
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Hey, thanks. I'm working on getting my systems down in my mind since I haven't had the chance to actually get out and try leading solo yet. I may have to work out a backpack system myself, cause having all that rope just hanging seems like it would be a hassle. I dunno yet though...
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