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bmapple
Aug 2, 2005, 3:12 AM
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Registered: Aug 1, 2005
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My significant other and I are both experienced, competent rock climbers and have had a fair amount of vertical ice climbing experience to boot. But, we know not a thing about climbing on snow....
The problem is this: we live in Ohio. And this state hasn't seen a glacier in 15,000 years.
Man, I want to climb some real mountains.
Could anyone suggest a good 1-3 day course or class that would cover some avalanche safety and some other general snow and glacier travel techniques? The thing is most classes I've looked at are either for total beginners or they get into more in depth topics, but are a week or more in length. I don't have weeks of time and thousands of dollars, nor do I need someone to show me how to tie a figure eight or the basics of belaying. Does a class exist that can show someone with years of rock experience something about snow and glaciers without being too basic?
And last, while I've looked at classes in the east (which are closer to home), I've also heard some more serious type out west climbers joke about how lame it is to run an glacier class on a mountain that has no real glaciers.
Friends, do you have any suggestions?
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bullet_proof
Aug 2, 2005, 3:26 AM
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Registered: May 17, 2005
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where are you in Ohio?
pm me, maybe I can help you.
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bullet_proof
Aug 2, 2005, 3:30 AM
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Registered: May 17, 2005
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let me be more specific.
Where is Athens? North, south, west, east, blah blah blah of Ohio.
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rocks4jules
Aug 2, 2005, 4:21 AM
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Registered: Jul 27, 2002
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Hey there, thought I'd throw you my 2 cents. If you are serious about Alpine climbing, there are some great Mountaineering Schools here in the Northwest. Or you can go online and typing in mountaineering schools to find a club near Ohio. The Seattle and Spokane Mountaineers provide some advice, or the Access Fund (do you belong to that)? Mountain Gear at mgear.com or REI stores around the country can help you out too. Just start by doing some local searching -- or move to Idaho, Washington, or Colorado. Have fun, and keep climbing.
Cheers!
Jules
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scottquig
Aug 2, 2005, 5:08 AM
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Registered: Feb 10, 2005
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The settlers moved west for a reason. Perhaps you have just discovered it.
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mtnfr34k
Aug 2, 2005, 5:38 AM
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Registered: Jul 16, 2005
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Check out the Short and Extended Mountaineering Camps offered by Sierra Mountain Center. They're a small, professional outfit in some of the best alpine terrain in the country! http://www.sierramountaincenter.com/pages/tripcategorypages/mountainrng_courses_skls.php
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bmapple
Aug 3, 2005, 12:38 AM
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Yes, moving from south east Ohio is in the plans, but not for a couple years. The rock around isn't bad- a couple hours from the new and about four from the red and Seneca. Even ice in the winter at our local choss pile.
I'll look into your suggestions. I've had others recommend "finding a club", but I'm apprehensive because clubs always sound so, well for lack of a better term, like "clubs". "HI, I'm Joe Schmoe from ohio..." "uh, who are you..." Perhaps my preconceptions are a little off the mark
To clarify what I was looking for: Have you or someone you know taken a class that you could recommend? I look on the internet and there's a bazillion guides/clubs/organizations out there- who's a waste of money, and who's the diamond in the rough?
Also, is it true that east coast mountaineering classes are lacking because of the lack of glaciers on this side of the continent? I know two people who took classes in the presidential range, one is fat and is now into golf, the other ended up taking a two week class in the cascades and has never looked back. Then again, doesn't Mark Synot (and other relatively famous and successful people) live and guide in New Hampshire?
Last, the front range contains the closest glaciers, ought I aim in that direction? Or, should I spend a few more bucks to get to the sierras or the cascades?
Hell, I could talk myself in circles.
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mtnfr34k
Aug 3, 2005, 12:51 AM
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Registered: Jul 16, 2005
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Now you've confused me. Are you looking for more alpine rock experience, ice climbing, basic glacier travel, or a combination thereof? If you want pure glacier travel, you'll have to go to the Pacific Northwest - the glaciers in the Rockies and Sierras pale in comparison. If you want a pure alpine rock experience, the Rockies are great and a lot closer to Ohio. If you want something in between, my opinion is that the Sierra's have the best combination.
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crito
Aug 3, 2005, 2:01 AM
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Registered: May 12, 2005
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I just did a class with the American Alpine Institute, which was excellent. I was in a similar position with a lot of rock experience and not much snow or ice. I would recommend doing a privately guided course, while being more expensive per day, you can focus on exactly what you want to learn. Considering your objectives I think you would be the most satisfied with this option. I did a three day course, which covered crevasse rescue, snow and ice anchors, snow travel, glacier travel and rope team technique. I did it with one other person and it was about $700 for three days. That may seem expensive, but I also took a two week class, and because of the guide to client ration of 3:1, I really felt like I learned less per day. If I was going to do it again, I would do a private trip and pay a little more than risk being on a trip with people who are really new to climbing, even though the course I was on was supposed to be for advanced climbers. If you are interested in doing something with the AAI I could recommend some guides who are excellent.
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rocks4jules
Aug 3, 2005, 4:54 AM
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Registered: Jul 27, 2002
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Crito said:
I would recommend doing a privately guided course, while being more expensive per day, you can focus on exactly what you want to learn. Considering your objectives I think you would be the most satisfied with this option. I did a three day course, which covered crevasse rescue, snow and ice anchors, snow travel, glacier travel and rope team technique. I did it with one other person and it was about $700 for three days.
However, I would highly disagree with a private lesson. Although it will teach you your basic survival techniques, nothing is like taking a full blown class from a mountain school "club" like The Sierra Club, Seattle Mountaineers, or Spokane Mountaineers, etc. That would be like taking a scuba class while on a cruise ship, and calling yourself an expert diver. If you are serious about climbing, do it right and don't waste $700 in three days. Spend $65 - $100 for a class, and even check with your local universities, as some are now adding outdoor climbing/hiking as a credit. Sorry, but I do have experience, and I do know what I am talking about. I'm not trying to diss on anyone, I just want to see people get the right training. Good luck.
Jules
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mtnfr34k
Aug 3, 2005, 5:38 AM
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Registered: Jul 16, 2005
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The problem with clubs is that the courses last over an entire season - not practical to commute to from Ohio. I agree with private guiding as being the best bang for the buck.
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graniteboy
Aug 5, 2005, 6:13 PM
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Registered: Dec 1, 2001
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The issue with paid classes is that you will most likely be subject to alot of basic material that you probably already have a feel for. And all too often, you have a guide who has only been climbing for a handful of years.
Here's a better solution than a guided class; come on out here and we'll take a run on one of the Sierra beginner alpine classics. Like the North peak-Conness enchainment, or Mendel right....It'll get me out of the house, and although I quit guiding when I became a grown up and got a real job, you won't be subject to the young, less experienced type of guide that you're likely to run into if you go do a class with ASI or one of the classes up north.
This will cost you 1) your travel expenses 2) shared food cost 3) a six pack of guinness when we get home, and 4) a solemn vow to take good care of my mountain range. Yes,,,,It's mine. all of it.
A good time frame for these routes is mid to late september. Drop a line.
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bmapple
Aug 7, 2005, 3:28 PM
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Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 52
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I think right now we're leaning towards just hiring a private guide for a couple days. I figure that way we can have just the three of us and no other bozos siphoning away the guides time. This would also alow us more options in scheduling and we wouldn't have to spend the requisite half a day learning how to belay and attach crampons to our boots, etc. We could let them know ahead of time exactly what we want to learn and concentrate on that specifically.
Yes, there are plenty of morons out there that guide for a living, but I think I could find someone that would be worth our time and money.
Thank you all for your input and suggestions, and graniteboy, I may be getting a hold of you, depending upon my ever changing work schedule and monetary resources.
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rossgoddard
Aug 7, 2005, 5:52 PM
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Registered: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 181
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dont be worried about the east. i learned everything in new hampshire and maine, and it has allowed me to get on some big glaciated routes out west.
call mark synnott or marc chauvin. go with them, and you'll learn more than you bargained for
www.synnottmountainguides.com www.chauvinguides.com
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