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keith_b00ne
Aug 8, 2005, 1:26 PM
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A job allows you to buy cool toys, but without lots of vacation who has time to play with them. On the other side of the coin those with part time jobs have lots of time to play, but no money.
I personally love bikes, climbing gear, kayaks, traveling, etc. Has anyone solved the mystery of simplifying your life and still enjoying seeing the world.
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bigjonnyc
Aug 8, 2005, 1:29 PM
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1 lottery ticket per week = $52 per year = 52 chances per year @ $12M+
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andy_reagan
Aug 8, 2005, 2:22 PM
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The way I figure it is you just have to come to terms with living a life that is not full of material pleasures. This is OK seeing as you will be filling your life with good climbing, sunshine, healthy food and plenty of aerobic exercise (you're not going to waste the gas and drive 2.5 miles into town for groceries are you!?!?). Some people call it the "dirtbag lifestyle." I think of it in more simplified terms. You just focus your attention on what's important.
Because after all, as long as you have your rope, rack, and your truck is hitting all cylinders, you're good to go.
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kimmyt
Aug 8, 2005, 2:28 PM
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I thought this was going to be about Menopause...
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poedoe
Aug 8, 2005, 2:36 PM
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I'm living the college life, and I'm trying to figure out that one right now. I think my sollution, which I won't be able to try out for a couple more years, it to find a job in an area that has an abundnce of climbing near it. Work the 9-5, eat dinner, start the climb at 6, then a couple hours later come down with the aid of a headlamp. Anyone have success with something like that?
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organic
Aug 8, 2005, 2:39 PM
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In reply to: 1 lottery ticket per week = $52 per year = 52 chances per year @ $12M+
Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math... Invest that $52 in stocks and you have a better chance of making money than you do with the lottery.
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stonefoxgirl
Aug 8, 2005, 3:07 PM
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I work 2 jobs and both pay checks are deposited into 2 different bank accounts, my part time check I never see or touch so when it's time to travel or buy new gear I have that money ready. For instance, I was able to take a few week long trips this year and buy a rack for my Jeep. (It helps to have a PT job at a shop having to do with a hobbie you love). Now the tough part for me was regulating my schedule. I finally got it to where I work my full time job M-F and my part time T-Th. I've got my weekends off and some money in the bank. Good Luck-hope this helps!
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dynamo_
Aug 8, 2005, 3:40 PM
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My plan as a full time worker and part time student...
Work my arse off for the next ten years - I am 24 and am in a well paying job with high potential for advancement - (getting in recreational activities when I can) while living simply, amassing as much money as possible, and putting myself in a position of low overhead when the time comes - i.e. paid for house, paid for truck and car, complete sets of backpacking and rock climbing gear, interest bearing accounts.
Take some time off (1-2 years), have my fun, and come back to a lower exertion, probably lower paying job with more time off, such as teaching (my major) or the like.
Work the rest of my career utilizing off time while continuing to live cheaply. Retire early.
This is not too sexy or complex a plan, but it's the best I've been able to come up with and though a long shot, I have faith in my ability to make it happen, with the help of my wife and my coworkers. I suppose that is all anyone can do.
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bigjonnyc
Aug 8, 2005, 4:00 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: 1 lottery ticket per week = $52 per year = 52 chances per year @ $12M+ Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math... Invest that $52 in stocks and you have a better chance of making money than you do with the lottery.
You're probably right. I'm an engineer, and I sure as hell don't play the lottery. It was just a suggestion.
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esallen
Aug 8, 2005, 4:31 PM
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Now this is a serious question that has bugged me a lot. Please let me know if you find a solution :!:
Eric
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chugach001
Aug 8, 2005, 5:20 PM
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Beware of Creeping Incrementalism!
One day you're a horny little bugger focussed on adventure, you meet Mrs. Perfect and fall madly (MADLY) in love. You promise kids and then one day you are called to account for those promises. You do the best you can until then and you do your best after then to; pay the bills and do what really inspires you.
Good Luck!
Jeff
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stzzo
Aug 8, 2005, 5:36 PM
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Become an outdoor professional. The pay is low, but you get to spend lots of time outdoors. The work doesn't always (for me, almost never) satisfy the outdoor "fix" (guiding tourists, teaching newbies, "babysitting", etc), but you get discounts on gear and are well-positioned to go play in your off time. Plus, it's can be seasonal work, with breaks between seasons.
Or, be an independant contractor. You choose your projects and have down time in between.
Cutting your expenses is helpful to working less and playing more - learn how to live like you're poor, then you have more money for gear and trips, and don't need to work as much to pay. Things like: live with roommates, turn the heat down, eat cheaply, etc. Invest what you save by living below your means.
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keith_b00ne
Aug 8, 2005, 5:56 PM
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I think Stzzo has about the same idea as me. I have avoided having children due to cost and freedom and I live well below my means. Cut costs whenever possible and invest the money into play.
To continually simplify I need to reduce my living expenses, but I still would like to get away from the 8-5. That and I need more vacation than 2 weeks.
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maxdacat
Aug 8, 2005, 5:57 PM
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i think about this everyday! i'm stuck in london trying to earn as much cash as i can while i'm still able to get up and go to work.
i don't know if making my hobby my job is something i want to do....the best times outdoors i've had are when i've been with friends after a day of climbing or checking out some new places....not showing 20 people how to abseil.....of course i wouldn't rule it out.
BTW - would love to check out the US....it seems like you guys have so much...all i've really been to is the gunks just for a day.
anyone out there roadtripping at the moment....no don't make me jealous :)
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keith_b00ne
Aug 8, 2005, 5:58 PM
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How much do 'outdoor professionals' make? I live in Southern Indiana and there is not much opportunity of outdoor careers.
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kimgraves
Aug 8, 2005, 6:17 PM
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Hi Keith,
It seems to me in the big scheme of things that “the toys” you’re talking about are not a big expense. The cost of housing, food, medical is common to all of us and so unavoidable. What costs BIG money is having children. I don’t remember what the current estimated cost to raise a child from birth through college is but it’s substantial. Medical, schooling, daycare, private schools, college, all the toys for them, etc. It just adds up $100’sK. That’s not to say you can raise good kids on less. But whatever way you slice it, children are a BIG expense. It seems to me that the most economically efficient unit is the DINK (double income no kids) unit. So the real issue is do you want to have kids? I give the same advice to that one that I give to getting married or going to graduate school: “don’t do it if you can avoid it.” But there are times when you can’t avoid it.
I have none of my own, but two step-children and three grandchildren (yet another expense). For me the tradeoff is a nobrainer. My “children” and grandchildren are my greatest joy.
Best, Kim
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trenchdigger
Aug 8, 2005, 6:19 PM
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In reply to: A job allows you to buy cool toys, but without lots of vacation who has time to play with them. On the other side of the coin those with part time jobs have lots of time to play, but no money. I personally love bikes, climbing gear, kayaks, traveling, etc. Has anyone solved the mystery of simplifying your life and still enjoying seeing the world.
I just quit my job at REI after about 8 months of buying toys. Now I'm going to play. With a full time engineering job on the side, I had plenty of extra cash to blow on gear. Now I've got enough to last quite a while! Now any free time from my regular job will be spent in the mountains and on the rock. I must say, the plan worked quite well, and I actually had a lot of fun doing it. Working 60+ hrs/week was not so great, but having it split between a desk job and a retail job made things a little easier. And one job without the other wouldn't have been nearly as productive in acquiring gear - REI sure doesn't pay enough, and my engineering job doesn't get me any discounts. A little sacrifice was well worth the payoff.
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paganmonkeyboy
Aug 8, 2005, 6:20 PM
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1) pay off all overhead on all that pimp gear, loans, etc - no debt
2) save enough for @1 year of health/car/renter's insurance/gas/food/storage space
3) stretch 2) above as long as possible
4) repeat often
currently working on #1 & 2, counting the days til 3 and 4....
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phillipmikerevis
Aug 8, 2005, 6:23 PM
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i take two working vacations a year
one to alta utah from november through may or june working at a ski shop the money sucks but i get to ski every day [i have skied over a hundred days a year since back in the 1900's]
from june through october i go somewhere where the climbing is good [this year it was new paltz ny] work at a resort hotel waiting tables and climbing the money is good and i get to climb at least four days a week
i ain't getting rich but my bills are paid and spending most of my time doing what i love is priceless
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realdeal39
Aug 8, 2005, 6:33 PM
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The best soloution I've found is to get a job you enjoy at a place you really enjoy. I wanted to go to Yosemite last summer and climb. So I got a job there at the Curry Village Buffet and worked 5 am till 1:30 and it left me with the whole afternoon for climbing. Probably one of the best jobs I've had.
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northerndrawl
Aug 8, 2005, 6:59 PM
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Short term, high paying jobs are can be found but are almost always highly skilled and semi-dangerous--steelworker, oil rig worker, tower hand, and stonemason come to mind. Pretty much any construction trade actually when I think about it. Mind you the really good paying ones take years of apprenticeship but once you know what you're doing (which my require some sort of certification/ticket/license depending on where you live) and have built up a network of contacts you can pick and choose the work as you need.
Downside--the work is bloody hard, the hours long, you may end up doing things you would never do climbing, it can be extremely cold/buggy/insanely hot. Or the work is not there when you need it. They can also damage you physically over the long term (but hey so can a desk job).
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realdeal39
Aug 8, 2005, 7:11 PM
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Hell, if you want a short term job where you can make a killing but is a tad dangerous be a crab fisherman in Alaska. $100,000 or so so a months work. Granted you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying but you could get alot of climbing done if your in the other 3 out of 4.
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stzzo
Aug 8, 2005, 7:11 PM
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In reply to: How much do 'outdoor professionals' make? I live in Southern Indiana and there is not much opportunity of outdoor careers.
Among the people I knew, it varied pretty widely. A few rivers I guided paid around $40 / trip. Another, more challenging run was more like $150 for an experienced guide, some are even more, but it takes a while to gain the necessary experience. IIRC, at the time, NOLS and Outward Bound were paying new instructors about $40 / day. Adventure education programs for school & college kids were paying about $125 - $150 / day (for frequently 14 to 16-hour days). Ski instructor was about $6 / hour + tips, but in West Virginia that's not as low as it seems.
How much / year... can't remember. But I do know that one of my friends was making about $6,000. Tho', I don't think she was working in the winter season.
One cool thing is that you can make a justifiable case for deducting your gear and trips as "tools of the trade" and "job education" (helping you hone your skills to be a better guide / instructor). Your plane ticket to move to Costa Rica for the winter rafting season is a "moving expense"... YMMV - the IRS may disagree. But I would hope that they have bigger fish to fry than someone who's making so little money and keeping people alive in the wilderness.
But, as I implied earlier, it ain't necessarily glorious work. When you're doing it for fun, you can bag the trip if the conditions are miserable. When you're getting paid, you're obligated to tough it out (assuming it's safe), and also to be responsible for the safety of the clients. You have to deal with people's personalities, which aren't always pleasant. Etc. There's a recent thread on being a guide/instructor.
[edit]But it was pretty damn fun for a while. I got to guide some fun rivers, guide in Costa Rica and Ecuador, learn from experts, have some wild adventures, hike in beautiful places, turn kids and adults on to the beauty of nature and teach them how to keep it beautiful, help them grow personally, meet some absolutely wonderful people, gain strong first-aid skills and risk assessment skills / judgement, etc. [/edit]
For opportunities in southern Indiana, you might try the Association for Experiential Education (AEE) job listings.
[edit]But if you're untethered, hit the road! Try West Virginia or North Carolina for a great mix of climbing, whitewater, and mountain biking. I can give you details if you're interested... [/edit]
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stzzo
Aug 8, 2005, 7:39 PM
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Teacher is also an option: livable (tho' low) pay, lots of time off - can supplement w/ part-time job during the summer if needed. But for the sake of the students and our society, don't go this road unless you really care about the students and their education.
Some schools & universities even have adventure ed programs, and of course employ someone to manage them.
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