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jacobbelsher
Sep 9, 2005, 11:27 PM
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recently simuled for the first time. In retrospect, I think it would've gone better with more rope between my partner and I. I'm wondering if there is some rule of thumb for the distance between simuling climbers, or what considerations/factors might effect this distance.
The route was the north ridge of mt. stuart, and it involved a fair bit of down climbing...
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graniteboy
Sep 9, 2005, 11:36 PM
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I like about 100 feet between us if it's straightforward easy stuff (5.8 or lower). On 5.9 or 5.10-, I make the call based on what the terrain and the protection look like. There are very few folks that I trust to simul 5.9 or 10- with, though. Communication is always a consideration: are you gonna be within sight of each other the whole time? or are there alot of wiggly ledges, roofs, and such things on route?
On glaciers, it depends on crevasse size...if the crevasses are little guys, I like abt 50 ft between. If it's the Ak range or Canadian big stuff, I spread that out to abt 75 ft or so.
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iceisnice
Sep 10, 2005, 1:52 AM
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are you talking alpine climbing? simul climbing is pretty dangerous. gives a false sense of security most of the time. if you are on ice or snow (true alpine, otherwise we are not talking alpine but multipitch rock climbing) don't simul. if you are not gonna use a belay it can actually be safer to solo. if you don't feel comfortable soloing it, then belay and pitch it out. in the end i guess there is no right answer. its a decision based on the factors at the time. the only thing i would say is if you don't have thousands and thousands of pitches under your belt, be very careful simul climbing. that goes for your question too. its a decision you should base on the circumstances at hand. don't think there is a fixed way of always doing it.
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radistrad
Sep 10, 2005, 3:04 AM
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I like 100'. One guy ties into both end and the other clips into a figure 8 on a bight with two lockers. the couvled over rope has never been a problem. Always have atleast 3 pieces between the leader and follower.
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paulc
Sep 10, 2005, 4:19 AM
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In reply to: iceisnice, My bad. I'm talking rock. This is rockclimbing dot com, right...? = |
Not a crazy Q, the forum is called Alpine & Ice. Some eople do simul ice after all.
Paul
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pancaketom
Sep 10, 2005, 4:40 AM
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70 M is too much for me - the rope drag and weight is brutal. a folded over 60 M rope (about 100 feet) seems like a better compromise between getting gear between you, and not having too much drag and distance. Basically assume you are soloing, especially for the second.
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sspssp
Sep 10, 2005, 5:41 PM
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In reply to: I don't simul on anything over 5.8, normally. Since I'm usually on easy ground, rope drag isn't a major issue.
Being on easy ground makes the rope drag more manageable... However, the easy terrain is usually much more blocky (and often times more wandering) and being on lead with the full rope out dragging at you gets tiring after a while. I usually go for about 100'.
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sspssp
Sep 10, 2005, 5:53 PM
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In reply to: simul climbing is pretty dangerous. gives a false sense of security most of the time. if you are on ice or snow (true alpine, otherwise we are not talking alpine but multipitch rock climbing) don't simul. if you are not gonna use a belay it can actually be safer to solo.
Well, the only safe climbing is not climbing at all. Simul climbing has tradeoffs, but soloing or belaying out every pitch does also. Once you have made a decision to climb some alpine route, moving quickly to avoid storms/darkness might be safer than belaying everything out. Soloing might mean the difference between one death and two, but soloing means any fall is fatal. Simul climbing you have a good chance of living--even if the second falls, both climbers might walk away unscathed.
My main partner climbs a full number grade harder than I do. So I simul climb (in the lead) sections that he would be willing to solo. His chance of pulling me off is very small. Much smaller than my chance of falling. So I essentially get a moving belay for free and I can put a piece in before any of the harder (harder being relative to easy-simul-climbing terrain) spots. So for my situation, simul climbing is clearly safer than soloing and simul climbing is probably 3 times (or more) as fast as traditional belaying.
Easy sections where you would be comfortable soloing might be a good way to get an introduction into simul climbing.
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asandh
Sep 10, 2005, 6:05 PM
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:)
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adnix
Sep 12, 2005, 5:54 PM
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In reply to: Simul Climbing is the "Illusion of Safety" and should NOT be attempted by novices. If you wouldn't solo it, then quick belays with run out leads is not much slower.
- On ice we usually have one or two good screws most of the time. Usually we use one twin rope doubled which translates to 30m between the climbers and about one screw for 15-30m.
- On easy rock one or more pieces depending lots of stuff. Most of the time we have 15-20 meters of rope.
If the climbing feels hard the leader will put pro on regular basis and he'll fix a top rope for the second.
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sspssp
Sep 12, 2005, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: - On easy rock one or more pieces depending lots of stuff. Most of the time we have 15-20 meters of rope.
15 meters? When simul-climbing terrain that drops below 5.7, I'll go more than 15 meters between placements. 15 meters sounds way short to me, but each to their own...
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yannbuse
Sep 13, 2005, 3:38 PM
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As mentioned it depends with what you are comfortable with. That being said it also depends on the rock formation. Recently i was climbing some ridges in chamonix and at some points we had 15-25m of rope that we would thread between horns, spires or any natural feature. This helps a whole lot when your have a light alpine rack as you are saving alot of pro by not placing any. However once the ridge would rise sharply, we would extend the rope to suit the protection. One of the reason why i like the alpine butterfly knot for this type of climbing (especially in 3 person simul climbing scenarios). Conclusively, i find it all depends on the exposure and the natural protection of the rock. If you are traversing a knife edge col with snow, you would be ropped up (thus simul climbing) but with a short amount of rope between climbers so that if you one falls the other would jump over the other side of the col, but since the rope length isnt too long, the fall would be short. On the other hand if you are traversing a ridge with speradic vertical bits, then extending your rope may seem more feasible, depending on how you plan to protect your climb.
yann
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