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aimeerose
Oct 2, 2005, 10:57 PM
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Okay, I am completely disgusted by the most recent issue of Urban Climber (not that it's a bad magazine). All of the ads with women in them were of women climbing easy stuff, with makeup and hair done, in skimpy tops, totally posing (see photo of Angie Payne for Mad Rock). Why do women allow these kind of photos to be published of themselves (not all do, granted- Lisa Rands, Lynn Hill, Beth Rodden never have photos like this). But, it seems like a new and bad trend. Anyone else noticed this?
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bigevilgrape
Oct 3, 2005, 12:44 AM
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If you had to do photoshoots that lasted for hours you probobly wouldnt be able to pull hard stuff all the time. and most women i see climbing are wearing skimpy clothing. Advertisments are all BS anyway.
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aimeerose
Oct 3, 2005, 1:08 AM
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Hmmm, then how come the men are always pulling off hard stuff. I think it's cause they actually climb, not just pose.
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bigevilgrape
Oct 3, 2005, 1:28 AM
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I hadn't seen the ads you where talking about sooo i didn't know if they where any real climbers.
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clausti
Oct 3, 2005, 1:29 AM
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yeah as far as the skimpy top thing goes...
if its warmer than 60, and i'm climbing, im probably not wearing anythign but a sports bra and a smile from the waist up. many chicks who climb dress like that.
makeup..
some chicks thrown down in makeup.
first comp i ever went to... i walk in, feelin kinda badass, drove an hour and a half by myself to compete... and in my division is a sugar-blond girl in a pink tank top and white shorts. pink scrunchie, pink eye shadow, pink nailpolish. and normal high school girl amount of makeup on.
my first thought: "who invited barbie?"
she proceeded to kick EVERYONE's asses, including the boys.
michelle lever, you still rock my world.
posing...
most photographers have the climbers pose. or many, anyways.
easy stuff "only"...
perhaps prevelantly. perhaps for ads. *that* isnt the mag's responsibility, or fault, really. *maybe* having a girl looking really cool climbing something kinda easy appeals to a wider audience base [most of whom climb closer to that level] than having a girl pulling v11 [which most of us, of whatever gender, will never do. ]
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aimeerose
Oct 3, 2005, 2:05 AM
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Sports bras are different than spagetti strap tank tops and full on boob shots. And don't even get me started on the crotch shot! It seems as if almost every ad with a female climber has her doing the requisite high step, crotch shot.
There is a clear difference, for the most part, in ads featuring women vs those with men and Angie Payne and Lauren Lee are the worst offenders.
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clausti
Oct 3, 2005, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: Sports bras are different than spagetti strap tank tops and full on boob shots. And don't even get me started on the crotch shot! It seems as if almost every ad with a female climber has her doing the requisite high step, crotch shot. There is a clear difference, for the most part, in ads featuring women vs those with men and Angie Payne and Lauren Lee are the worst offenders.
are they different thank a string bikini top? [also worn to climb in]
is it a crime to have boobs AND rock climb?
good for angie payne and lauren lee. they got their pictures in the magazine and guys say they're hot.
city girls [URBAN] climber, get to look up to someone who climbs somethign they can aspire to, not somethign they dont think they'll ever do.
city boys get eye candy.
what's your objection? effective marketing plan? the fact that she has boobs and you dont? why are you attacking spec ppl in this? what's the easiest thing lauren lee is on in an ad in that mag? whats the second easiest, if applicable?
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aimeerose
Oct 3, 2005, 5:20 AM
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It's not Lauren in the mag, it's Angie and she's on a V2 in one pic and a V5 in another- both things I could flash. I'm not jealous of her boobs at all. It's the fact that she knowingly posed with the camera angled down her shirt and then later in the mag talks about how she doesn't want to be objectified. What a hypocrite!
And the hardest thing I've seen Lauren on in a mag is 13a. My friend Anna climbs way harder than that, but where do you see her pic?
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maculated
Oct 3, 2005, 5:47 AM
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Gotta ask the obivous question here, Aimee - why does anyone have to be pictured doing something harder than you? The magazine culture certainly tries to lead readers to CARE about the latest big number climbers, but in reality, is that what climbing's about?
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tobefree
Oct 3, 2005, 5:54 AM
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Skin sells. Simple as that. Everyone has their own motivation. If they want to wear makeup, then who the hell cares. I just climb, wear what's comfy and have fun. Why does it matter what anyone else is doing...
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analine
Oct 3, 2005, 12:29 PM
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I agree with Aimeerose, I was just driving home from the crag last night listening to 2 guys discussing the women in that magazine and they weren't talking about their climbing ability. That's what the problem is. Yeah it's nice to look good, but is that what you want to be respected for? It's definitely an imbalance, the guys are respected for pulling down and the girls just have to look good. The boulder in the background is just there because it's a climbing mag. It's not that there is something wrong with looking good, it's that that's the focus.
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irish_ice
Oct 3, 2005, 1:25 PM
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I'd be lying if I said I have never watched a guy climb and rather than thinking about the rating he's climbing or his great technique, I'm thinking about how FREAKIN HOT he looks climbing the route! :wink: No shirt, chisled muscles, yum. Maybe I'm the only girl who thinks like this though.
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clausti
Oct 3, 2005, 1:46 PM
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In reply to: It's not Lauren in the mag, it's Angie and she's on a V2 in one pic and a V5 in another- both things I could flash.... And the hardest thing I've seen Lauren on in a mag is 13a. My friend Anna climbs way harder than that, but where do you see her pic?
so the real issue here is that you feel like, based on the pictoral evidence, you and your buddy anna can climb harder than angie and lauren, respectively, and, if you climb harder, YOU should be in the magazine?
some different issues play into this. one of the pic ones is, are you freinds with any photographers? photographers are people just like anybody else, and they tend to shoot what's availible a lot of times. that means they take pictures of the ppl they climb with. somtimes that's gonna be a girl they're friends with that doesnt eat the rock for breakfast, necasarily. i can think of a couple of examples of this. one is matt stark, i know has pics in a sickle ad in that issue, and his girlfreind megan is in those adds every now and again; she is strong but not epiclly strong, but she climbs with him a lot, and thus gets her picture taken by somebody that submits to magazines and ad companies.
sometimes that is how it works and you gotta deal with it.
and, give lauren lee a break. .13a is hard shit. and v5 is pretty hard too, when you think about it itself not it in relation to v14.
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bigevilgrape
Oct 3, 2005, 2:09 PM
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sex sells. most people who climb are also dudes. I still think that most chicks I see out climbing are pretty skimpily dressed. (and maybe last time I was at rumney I was checking out a girl on an easy route because she was wicked hot. Jake agreed)
I am not offendeed by hot chicks climbing easy stuff in climbing mags then I am by girls in victoria's secret ads.
In reply to: and, give lauren lee a break. .13a is hard s---. and v5 is pretty hard too, when you think about it itself not it in relation to v14.
I agree 100% 5.13a is wicked hard, harder then I'll ever be able to climb.
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macherry
Oct 3, 2005, 2:23 PM
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i'm going to agree with clausti.
most of the women in ads have sponosrship deals or happen to be in the right place at the right time. I really don't question the grade they are climbing.......i like to see women in ads. There's been some great shots of lisa rands and steph davis in ads.
You have to look at the magazine you are reading. I'm not really familiar with urban climber, but i believe the ad campaigns in that rag are catering to a younger boy audience.....the hip, saavy, urban climber :roll: Look at the ads with guys in them, they've got that urban gangsta look.
I love a good looking body........man or woman. And if it's a pic of a woman climbing, she's wearing what she usually climbs in. Unless you're looking at stone nudes............ :D
if your friend anna climbs high #, it's just a matter of marketing and getting sponsorship. There's lots of women climbing high numbers and don't give a shit about have a pic in a mag.
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aimeerose
Oct 3, 2005, 2:57 PM
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And 5.13a is hard, but many women I know have sent at least one (most women in SLC climb 5.13 regularly). V5, not so hard.....
edited to remove comments the poster no longer agrees with and to add apologies to Lauren and Angie.
(This post was edited by aimeerose on Dec 27, 2008, 3:56 AM)
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clausti
Oct 3, 2005, 3:19 PM
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In reply to: It's not just who you know (photographer-wise), it's also who you sleep with! Aparently Angie and Lauren are dating 40 year old industry/photographer men. And 5.13a is hard, but many women I know have sent at least one (most women in SLC climb 5.13 regularly). V5, not so hard.....
that is a point of view, as has been stated by better than me, more damaging to women than any picture of a v2 send in an ad ever could be.
i've slept with men 8-12 years older than me, does that make me a golddigging slut? and i've flirted with photographers, too.
and yes, i'm gonna say it. climb 13 sport in SLC. climb v5 at hueco. sure.
come to boone, nc and climb v5. come to the new river gorge and climb 5.13. maybe i'll respect you then.
edited to remove offensive language and personal attacks.
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boadman
Oct 3, 2005, 3:31 PM
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In reply to: It's not Lauren in the mag, it's Angie and she's on a V2 in one pic and a V5 in another- both things I could flash. I'm not jealous of her boobs at all. It's the fact that she knowingly posed with the camera angled down her shirt and then later in the mag talks about how she doesn't want to be objectified. What a hypocrite! And the hardest thing I've seen Lauren on in a mag is 13a. My friend Anna climbs way harder than that, but where do you see her pic?
I saw Lauren Lee send Frogtown 13d at the VRG, she's also done Dumpster Barbecue at Rifle, both of which are super powerful bouldery routes which rarely get done by women. Regardless of what she gets photos taken on, she pulls down really hard. There are very few men or women sending 13d. Angie Payne boulders v-hard, I've seen her do v-10, which is not too shabby. I doubt you're climbing in the same league with either of them. Coincidentally, they both look good.
Oh, and clausti, .13 in the NRG isn't any harder than 13 at rifle. In fact, 13s at the Red and the new generally have much easier moves.
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granite_grrl
Oct 3, 2005, 4:04 PM
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In reply to: It's not just who you know (photographer-wise), it's also who you sleep with! Aparently Angie and Lauren are dating 40 year old industry/photographer men.
Ouch. Now you're insulting them on a personal level, insinuating that they're dating (or just plain screwing) these men just to advance their climbing careers.
Without seeing the ads I will comment that I don't think that shooting a person on a climb that might not be at the top of the scale doesn't belittle them. Maybe the climb is photogenic, maybe they are out just having fun. I remember seeing a photo Lisa Rands on a V5 and thought it was a pretty cool photo. I also remember thinking...dang, why can't I have bicepts like hers :P
I'd have to see the photo to make a good comment on intentional vs acidental showing off of boobs. If it's a lousy shoot, then boobs may have been the focus, if its a cool shoot then showing off boobs could have been a side effect.
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kimmyt
Oct 3, 2005, 5:09 PM
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I'm sorry, but since when is being seen as a sex symbol something to be ashamed of?
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clausti
Oct 3, 2005, 5:21 PM
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In reply to: Oh, and clausti, .13 in the NRG isn't any harder than 13 at rifle. In fact, 13s at the Red and the new generally have much easier moves.
i didnt say "at rifle" though. i said in salt lake city, which is what i was assuming slc means.
i've never climbed at rifle and i've never climbed 5.13, either. but i'll agree with you that the 12's at the red have easier moves than the 12's at the new. i'd hold up NRG routes against routes anywhere for technical quality at a grade.
i find it hard to beleive that she knows scads of chicks who climb 5.13 if its the same where shes climbin and the places i've climbed.
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boadman
Oct 3, 2005, 6:02 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Oh, and clausti, .13 in the NRG isn't any harder than 13 at rifle. In fact, 13s at the Red and the new generally have much easier moves. i didnt say "at rifle" though. i said in salt lake city, which is what i was assuming slc means. i've never climbed at rifle and i've never climbed 5.13, either. but i'll agree with you that the 12's at the red have easier moves than the 12's at the new. i'd hold up NRG routes against routes anywhere for technical quality at a grade. i find it hard to beleive that she knows scads of chicks who climb 5.13 if its the same where shes climbin and the places i've climbed.
Most of the good climbers from SLC spend a lot of time at rifle, and honestly, there are tons of women from there who climb 5.13. I saw at least 10 this weekend at Rifle, and I'm sure there's a lot more that climb at Maple, or around the St. George area.
The quality of the rock at the NRG is incredible, but take (for instance) Apocalypse Later at the Coliseum at Summersville, definately no 5.13 moves on that route, or that classic one that I'm spacing the name of at Kaymoor? Definately pumpy, but not hard, exactly.
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comet
Oct 3, 2005, 6:19 PM
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In reply to: It's not just who you know (photographer-wise), it's also who you sleep with! Aparently Angie and Lauren are dating 40 year old industry/photographer men.
I find comments like this to be FAR more detrimental to the integrity of women climbers than a shot of a woman on an "easy" .13 wearing a tank top.
Aimeerose, I see where you're coming from with the "saying she doesn't want to be objectified and letting someone take a boob shot of her," but I think you dug yourself a hole with this one.
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iamthewallress
Oct 3, 2005, 6:45 PM
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In reply to: It's not just who you know (photographer-wise), it's also who you sleep with! Aparently Angie and Lauren are dating 40 year old industry/photographer men.
When I first looked at this thread, I saw clauti's reply to you...and I thought that it was one of the most inappropriate things I'd read in this forum...until I saw what she was responding too.
It will be a great day for women's rights when we can have relationships with whoever the fuck we choose without having others publically speculate that we're sleeping our way to the professional and personal acheivement that we may have gained.
In reply to: And yes, as I mentioned before, there's been great shots of Lynn, Beth, Steph, and Lisa. That's cause they're all strong enough (physically and mentally) to make sure they don't have booty shots in the mag. They would never lower themselves to boob and crotch shots.
I guess you missed the relevant issues of Maxim?
In reply to: And 5.13a is hard, but many women I know have sent at least one (most women in SLC climb 5.13 regularly). V5, not so hard.....
And?
If the women were overweight and/or over 50, would you think that featuring them on V5 was a liberating statement for Everywoman?
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