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zenchef
Sep 26, 2005, 7:45 PM
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I love being able to hike into a secret bouldering garden. Its me and the rock. No chalk marks, no mashed grass from pads. Just me and the rock. Then i go to some of the local hot spots and the area is trashed. Here we are saying we should boulder lightly, chalk seldomly. Yet our areas are a dump. Trash is everywhere, holds are so pasted up with chalk, you wonder how you dont peel off the rock. There is no finger pointing here. Saying so and so did it. Its their fault. Its your bouldering garden. The climbers play ground. Every single climber should take part in making it look like its still a part of nature and not another dump. Take pride in where you live.
Thank You
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iwannaclimb
Sep 30, 2005, 7:47 PM
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What's wrong with using chalk? I mean it's slopey and damp and it's the only way I can stick the holds some times.
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sidepull
Sep 30, 2005, 8:32 PM
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In reply to: What's wrong with using chalk? I mean it's slopey and damp and it's the only way I can stick the holds some times.
I'm not saying chalk is the devil, but this response helps shine light on the difficulty of the situation. This person argues "it's the only way I can stick the holds." So, is that the only way anyone can stick the holds? The point is that there seems to be a threshold at which personal achievement trumps collective experience. In other words, this person is saying, "I don't mind marring the rock a little for everyone else if it makes me happy." Why not take the slopey/damp scenario as an opportunity to get stronger. Wouldn't it be cooler to keep the area pristine and be able to say, "I can hike all of those problems without chalk."
That said, chalk isn't the culprit. I'm much more maddened by bear cans, cigarette butts, and dog and human poop in my bouldering garden. Let's be better.
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delarig
Sep 30, 2005, 9:27 PM
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I love bear.
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superbum
Sep 30, 2005, 10:13 PM
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The only way for things to change for the better is through education AND direct action by those who care. Idealistic minds will tell us that if enough people are educated about impact that we will all clean up after ourselves. Reality tells us that while this works most of the time there will ALWAYS be people who don't give a shit and there will ALWAYS be a need to clean up after others. It's not enough to pick up your own trash anymore.
Sorry, I don't mean to be negative. If you are in a popular bouldering venue and you bend down to scoop up some dog poo with your empty sandwich baggie, many who notice will be impressed and evaluate their behaviors. Others will be more inclined to leave messes because "people like him will always clean it up." Still others won't notice and continue to be jerks.
Gosh...I don't really have a point, just thoughts. We can only do what we can (and want to) whether that's picking up after others, being respectfull and clean or something more dramatic like boycotting areas, posting signs, calling in the access fund...
good luck everyone...
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iwannaclimb
Oct 1, 2005, 12:04 PM
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I blame it on hippies and traveling gypsies.
But I agree, nothing pisses me off than walking to a bouldering site and stepping in broken glass from bear bottles because someone thought "Man I have never seen glass shatter as it hits a rock before!" Or "Dude watch how far this falls!" *sigh
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jitterbugclimb
Oct 1, 2005, 2:03 PM
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Much of the problem of trashed bouldering areas is due to those prople we call rednecks. Unfortunately, many of the places we enjoy as climbers also make great spots for hillbilly parties and homeless camps. Climbers, for the most part (at least most that I know), are fairly environmentally conscious. Certainly more than the population at whole. Try these suggestions if your area is getting trashed. Take a trash bag with you when you go. establish clean-up days with other like minded climbers. And for the chalk "problem"-chalk is a part of climbing and will always be present. To suggest not using chalk is silly and unrealistic. Try this- brush the holds before you leave or when you finish a problem. It is that simple!
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superbum
Oct 1, 2005, 6:04 PM
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a bit off topic, but, brush your tick marks when you leave too...pleeeze.
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thisflash
Oct 1, 2005, 9:10 PM
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I agree with what people are saying and I think we need to step up and take better care of our bouldering areas. I spend a lot of time in Little Cottonwood Canyon, UT and I've seen a trend lately that I don't like. More and more people are leaving garbage, tick marks, tick arrows, dog shit, gum, and all sorts of other stuff at the boulders. I've found that most of this stuff is in beginner (more popular) areas. I think that the growing poularity of bouldering has attracted a lot of people that don't respect the environment and lack the forsight needed to preserve these boulders for future generations.
Another issue is stepping onto a problem without wiping one's shoes off. I've seen this a lot and it really polishes footholds. Even if someone can't afford a pad with a nice carpeted deck, they should go get a scrap piece of carpet and wipe their shoes before climbing.
And one more thing: brush the holds and ticks when you're done climbing.
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deserteaglle
Oct 17, 2005, 2:40 PM
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Like mentioned earlier, most of the shit you find around the crags is from redneck locals who don't care about the area. Boulderers need the area so for the most part they take care of it. I think your post is stupid and displays a ridiculous level of naivety. How old are you? If you haven't figured this out yet, well you obviously haven't, I'll help you out here. Most people do not care about what you do, and you are not going to change them. You may think that you are helping yourself by keeping an idealistic frame of mind, but it's really just pissing you off because you can't change everything you don't like or agree with in the world.
Don't talk about it. You don't like it, lead by example, not with words. Start by talking to your friends that you are climbing with, rather than people who live in places you will never go.
Don't be dumb and try and change the world, customize your corner as much as you can and don't sweat the rest. :D
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zenchef
Oct 28, 2005, 3:02 AM
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i think its funny how you are blaming it on rednecks. look in the mirror TEXAN! oh and by the way, your post was shit. you reiterated yourself too much. plus it seems like you are blaming it on your own breed of people. hey i bet you are doing it too and you just dont like people talking about what you and your brother and your girlfriend(who also happens to be your sister) do to these crazy places with chalk up the rocks and them crazy people who climb them. Oh and my age doesnt matter, so take it and shove it up your ass.
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crazyscuba
Oct 28, 2005, 4:19 AM
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That said, chalk isn't the culprit. I'm much more maddened by bear cans, cigarette butts, and dog and human poop in my bouldering garden. Let's be better.
There is only one thing i would like to add to this topic. You say that it's YOUR bouldering garden. I am just wondering if you own the property that the boulders are on? If not, then it is not your bouldering garden. You may go to the boulders frequently and you may be a local, but unless you own the land then you can not call them your own.
This is a growing trend that i have noticed lately locally as well as nationally. Just because you climb there often does not give you any right to call them your own. You seem to take offense to what your bouldering area looks like when you get there. Go do something about it rather than just complain about it. I've gone to many of the bouldering areas around here specifically to clean up. I don't hold many grudges because I know that sometimes we forget to clean a tick mark. Sometimes we forget a wrapper. It happens to everyone over time and most of the time people don't mean to do it. Try to relax a bit and just enjoy the fact that you have bouldering nearby.
steve
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blitzkrieg_climber13
Oct 28, 2005, 5:05 AM
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k whats the complaint about too much chalk. the only way you can complain about that is if you dont use chalk, and ive never seen a climber who doesnt use chalk. so everyone who is complaining about the chalk problem needs to shut their traps cuz they are contributing to it.
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crazyscuba
Oct 28, 2005, 12:47 PM
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In reply to: k whats the complaint about too much chalk. the only way you can complain about that is if you dont use chalk, and ive never seen a climber who doesnt use chalk. so everyone who is complaining about the chalk problem needs to shut their traps cuz they are contributing to it.
The complaint with chalk is that it does make the rock much harder to grab. If you don't know anyone that doesn't use chalk then you need to get to some different climbing areas. In the high sierra you rarely need chalk because of the friction and the fact that no one really uses chalk. None of holds are greased up and the granite is very grippy. On the north shore of Minnesota there is a no chalk ethic to keep the cliffs clean and the rock retains its friction because of this ethic.
Most climbers use chalk but there are many that do not.
steve
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deserteaglle
Oct 28, 2005, 1:32 PM
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Zenchef:
"i think its funny how you are blaming it on rednecks. look in the mirror TEXAN! oh and by the way, your post was shit. you reiterated yourself too much. plus it seems like you are blaming it on your own breed of people. hey i bet you are doing it too and you just dont like people talking about what you and your brother and your girlfriend(who also happens to be your sister) do to these crazy places with chalk up the rocks and them crazy people who climb them. Oh and my age doesnt matter, so take it and shove it up your ass. "
I really don't think I need to add anything to this for anyone who's not a dumbass, but I'll try and do you a favor. First off, don't bash my writing, you don't even know how to capitalize the first letter in a new sentence, let alone use a comma in the correct place.
Second, are you really so ignorant that you believe everybody from Texas is a sister fucking redneck? You, with your prejudice and lack of insight, would fit in perfectly with a high school group of rednecks around here. If you were talking about an ethnic group, you would be laughed at, and then labeled a racist/redneck/retard(which would give a bad name to thoughtful mentally challenged people).
And finally, judging by your last statement I would guess 15, 16 tops. Why the hell are you wanting to put stuff in my ass? Sicko!
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lofstromc
Oct 28, 2005, 1:46 PM
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Zenchef,
Don't talk about it, DO IT and shut up.
Your first "rainbows and butterflies" post was pointless.
Your second post was just plain combative (absolutely no Zen). Its not only the trash at bouldering areas that sucks, sometimes its the people too.
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deserteaglle
Oct 28, 2005, 2:13 PM
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I wish I could rate posts today. Lofstromc would get a big shiny trophy. I forgot all about the Zen part of your title when you were telling me to shove something up my ass. Do you think Thich Nacht Hahn would tell me to do that? I think not.
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jinx
Oct 28, 2005, 3:19 PM
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This is why I spend less time on the computer anymore and more time in the woods... As for the chalk and trash do as I do, when you go in take an extra trash bag and some other climbers, pick it up... Have days where you and your friends clean off the holds... The Rangers at PJ all know me by name cause they catch me cleanin up trash so much... Don't argue about who done it and clean it up if it bugs you so much... This is why we loose places to climb and hike... Everyone do a little and alot gets done... Jinx
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zenchef
Oct 28, 2005, 11:38 PM
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About you guessing my age, you are off by about 10 years nice try though. I like the fact that you used big words to make you sound more intelligent. Did you need to look those up before you used them? Now you are stooping so low as to insult my writing. You have run out of insults, sadly. See i am a chef at a local restaurant and what i have learned for the kitchen as well as the real world is that when one blames other people such in this case as rednecks, they are usually blaming themselves. They are so damn insecure to admit their mistake that they will go as far as to blame it on their mother. Second of all your little comment about how me wanting to shove things up m your ass was patheticlly humerous. I laughed out loud when i heard that. Ive heard better shit out of the freshman interns that do my dishes. You my friend need to put your head on straight and do yourself a favor: shut the fuck up while you are ahead. Now as they say here, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink. You are probebly thinking "what is the relavancy of that to this situation?" Well i told you to stop while you are ahead, take my advise and move on with life. But knowing people like you, you are probebly going to write back giving me some vulgarities about this and that. It wouldnt surprise me that you would go so low as to insult my family, my climbing ability, etc. So do youself a favor and shut the fuck up. Go climb for christs sake. You seem like you need a good lesson
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crazyscuba
Oct 28, 2005, 11:42 PM
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Instead of slandering someone that you don't know how about you answer some of the questions that were posed to you. Maybe you could reply to some of the comments made earlier in this thread.
steve
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deserteaglle
Oct 28, 2005, 11:55 PM
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Dude, I am really sorry I hurt your feelings.
I didn't know I used any big words, next time I'll bring things down to your level.
I am glad you get to be a chef and that you have underlings you can compare me to.
It must all be my fault, you see I thought you insulted my writing first when you said I reiterated myelf too much and my post was lame because of that. Sorry.
And I am extremely sorry about how paranoid I have forced you to become. Talk about insecure, where did you come up with the idea I was going to insult your family or your climbing abilities? I unlike you don't judge people I don't know anything about. From your post I learned about you that you are naive and live in a dream land where everybody does what you think they should, so I posted accordingly. From my posts you either think I am smart or that I know how to use a dictionary, but contrarily, you say in your posts how stupid I am. I'm sorry I am just confused. (oh and BTW: the shoving stuff up my ass rip on you was pointing out how ridiculous you are for telling people to put something in their ass)
Finally, in conclusion to this letter of apology, I would just like to let you know that until you quit posting and lead by example I wil continue to respond, and continue to make you look like a dumbass.
Sincerely yours,
The man who is really Zen-like in his objective flaming of you.
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zenchef
Oct 29, 2005, 12:01 AM
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this is from my first post that started this whole dispute:
"Its your bouldering garden. The climbers play ground. Every single climber should take part in making it look like its still a part of nature and not another dump. Take pride in where you live."
Need i say more? everyone is saying something along the lines of "get up and do it" or "shut up and go do it". Look at how many people agree with me. these are the people that are helping fellow climbers clean up the area in which they climb. it seems to me that the people that are saying "get up and do it" are the ones who are littering, finger pointing and not doing anything about it. This post was meant to show that climbers do care about cleaning up the area with other climbers, the Forest Service and the Access Fund. Instead of people actually doing it, they are sitting on their fat ass typing away at the computer saying "oh he should do it". Thats not taking responsibilty in your actions as a climber. Blame Blame Blame is all i hear. Let this be a message to every single person who is in this dispute whether in agreeiance with me or against me, do yourself a favor. Take pride in where you climb. Dont just sit there and say that i should be doing it. That i should be the one cleaning up. If you climb, you are littering. Some of it is in the form of chalk,some of it is in the form of loosing trash and not picking it up and some of it is even in the form of padding heavily causing the grass to mat down and damage the surface below the crag. Take pride in where you climb.
Thank You
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deserteaglle
Oct 29, 2005, 12:07 AM
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Finally the flaming can stop!!! :D I can accept that we disagree on the ways to go about keeping our crags clean. And this time (since you remained reasonable, and actually did lead by example) sincerely I can apologize. No hard feelin's. We can disagree and don't have to hate each other. Lata
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deserteaglle
Oct 29, 2005, 12:09 AM
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...And I don't think that everyone was trying to say that you should do all the cleaning up. Just clean up in your area, and don't worry about everybody else.
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zenchef
Oct 29, 2005, 12:12 AM
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See blame blame blame. Get up and do something. I could accept the fact that you think im a "dumbass" and whatever else you pulled out of your bag of tricks. Yet i am still sitting here, typing away unscathed. Why should i rebut? I dont know you, i have never met you. The only thing we have in common is the sport of climbing. So whats this feud about. To spread awareness? Bullshit.
I think its funny how negativity spreads like wildfire. Someone too stupid to read and fully comprehend the first post i had written on this subject decided to insult me. THe next thing you know, people are talking shit, pointing fingers and blaming. Was rc.com really designed for shit talking. Doubtful, the 100,000 + people on here all share a common interest: climbing. Lets show this interest by talking about different climbs to sesh while in the area, giving beta and spreading awareness about corrosion at the local spots.
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