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ryan906
Oct 26, 2005, 7:10 PM
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I just recently started gym climbing to get in shape and learn techniques for the outdoors in Spring. I have had a great time with it and tell everyone I know what an amazing sport it is. My girlfriend is very interested and wants to join along with me. She is only 95pounds and is toned from lifting the 7 pound weights at the gym. I am 180 pounds and she is not confident that she could stop me if I fell. I am not experienced enough to answer that and obviously don't want to be wrong with my answer. Any feedback?
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pharmboy
Oct 26, 2005, 7:17 PM
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Welcome Ryan...
I'm 195 +/- and my wife is 110. We've never had a problem. You should both learn proper belaying from someone with a lot of experience and I think you'll be fine, especially gym climbing. Outside is a little different and she will anchor in while belaying, just in case my fat ass comes whipping off the rock.
Good luck, have fun, be safe.
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rsiedl
Oct 26, 2005, 7:46 PM
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hey ryan,
the most critical stage when climbing with a partner who weigh's less than you is the first part. i sometimes climb with a partner who is about half my weight and she always stops me eventually. mind you if she wasnt anchored in and i fell in the first few feet, i could end up with a little injury maybe.
just make sure your "little one" always anchors in and knows what it feels like when you take a whipper.
cheers.
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mped
Oct 27, 2005, 5:43 PM
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my climbing partner weighs 50lbs more than me. It works fine as everyone mentioned the anchor stuff. My partner' only problem is if he falls/skids/or rests on the rope, he will go down and I will go up. Never have her lower you (ie. lower you from a top belay so you can climb up). I made this mistake and was certain my kidneys were going to explode.
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up4climbing
Oct 27, 2005, 6:45 PM
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Ryan, the partner I climb with most often is about 110, and I'm currently weighing in just over 200, and she has no problem belaying me. Now, she is a tough little broad, and is not intimidated catching hard falls. So it may take your GF a little practice to get comfortable with it. Just remember to throw together an anchor, or better yet, make her do it, so she knows how.
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samxbam8
Oct 27, 2005, 7:29 PM
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I'm around 95 and my friend who i belay is around 170, and i've never had any problems.
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qtm
Oct 28, 2005, 7:04 AM
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The right belay device makes a big difference. My partner prefers the ATC-XP because it gives a lot more friction than my device, and thus she can catch my fat butt when it comes flying off the rock. On cold, damp days, the more friction the better, especially with two damp skinny doubles. You can double up on the biners to create more friction as well.
Lifting the belayer off the ground makes for a softer catch for the leader. We only anchor in if the belayer needs to stand far back from the wall for some reason, if there's an overhang they might get lifted up into, or if there's a chance the falling leader will hit the belayer. On multipitch the belayer is always attached to the anchor is it's just something to consider for the first pitch and toproping.
Anyway, there are thousands of petite women belaying burly men, it shouldn't (edited typo!) be a big problem with the right belay device, practice, and attentive belaying.
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climbsomething
Oct 28, 2005, 7:45 AM
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For toproping in the gym, I wouldn't worry, if she has been taught solid belay techniques. My boyfriend weighs at least 85 pounds more than I do, and I have never, EVER dropped him in the 2+ years I've been belaying him. And he falls a lot too :P
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mcgivney_nh
Oct 28, 2005, 10:37 AM
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I have belayed someone about 80 pounds more than me, I didn't have a problem, just make sure that she knows what she's doing.
-Sean
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bill413
Oct 28, 2005, 2:16 PM
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I weigh about 175 lbs. When I first learned to climb, my first fall was caught by a 97 lb woman using a body belay (tells you how long ago I learned). Belay devices make it even easier to catch a climber than the body belay did. As others have said, using proper belay technique makes all the difference.
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zoratao
Oct 28, 2005, 3:12 PM
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K, Im gonna get a little scientific on you so here goes.... The way to analyze a fall in the gym or outdoors is as a conservation of energy problem. As you climb upwards you store energy, ummm, in yourself. You see when you fall you turn that stored energy into energy in motion (kinetic energy).
One way to visualize gravitational potential energy becoming kinetic energy is this hypothetical situation. Imagine there is a glacier at the top of a mountain. That glacier feeds a melt stream, and that stream turns a waterwheel at the bottom of the mountain that is used to grind grain into meal. The ice at the top of the mountain has a certain amount of stored energy. As that ice melts that stored gravitational energy becomes, energy in motion (kinetic energy). That motion then turns the paddle wheel which is another form of kinetic energy. That energy is used for useful work. I think the paddle wheel notion and melt stream are familiar enough phenomena to express this idea.
The amount of stored energy is the weight of the object multiplied by the height the object can fall. We usually express the weight as the mass of the climber times the acceleration due to gravity. (If interested read up on Newton’s 2nd law and gravity) We do this because it translates to kinetic energy so readily. The formula for kinetic energy is .5 time the mass of the object times the square of his speed. That is good enough for now.
What needs to be known is that a climber on top-rope falling one or two feet will expend his weight times the height he falls in energy. To stop that fall, the belayer will be accelerated upwards by the rope (ignoring rope stretch) so that the belayer’s kinetic energy is the opposite the climbers. Usually this is so small that it doesn’t move the belayer unless there is a really substantial difference in the masses of the belayer and the climber.
The case of lead climbing is much different. The climber can fall several times the distance that he does when toproping (10 ft instead of 1 or 2) So the energy put into the system of climber belayer and whatnot is much greater. The belayer will now be accelerated upwards with a much greater acceleration and probably, if not anchored in, be lifted off his feet. (not a pleasant experience!)
Stretchy ropes: The stretch of the rope dissipates some of the energy in the system due to the springy energy in the rope. One thing to consider is that the more rope you have between the climber and the belayer the longer the stretch.
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bigevilgrape
Oct 28, 2005, 3:42 PM
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In reply to: Anyway, there are thousands of petite women belaying burly men, it should be a big problem with the right belay device, practice, and attentive belaying.
best typo EVER.
little people hold big people all the time, so its not a big deal if you know what you are doing. Until she is comforitable have her anchor into the ground.
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lilkrissy
Oct 28, 2005, 4:00 PM
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I have to respectfully disagree with some of the earlier responses to your question. I think a very small person can belay a heavier person on a toprope just fine, and anchoring in is an acceptable procedure in this circumstance. Belaying a leader is another story. A small person needs to be much more attentive, and more aware of where they are standing. I weigh 105 pounds, and more than one person has brushed the ground, not always gently, after taking a fall with me belaying. I did not drop them! I was yanked up to the first bolt, in one case 15 feet off of the ground. If a heavy person (leading) falls with only one bolt clipped there is not very much friction in the system. If they are very far above the first bolt, there is a good chance they will hit the ground, although not at full speed. Again, if the heavy leader falls between the first and second bolt it is also very common for the belayer to be yanked up, and have the leader come crashing into the belayer. Not that much fun for the little guy. If there is a roof above the belayer, above the first piece of protection, the belayer may be yanked up, hit the roof, and get hurt.
Summary: inexperienced lightweight belaying a heavy leader, especially if they are likely to fall between the first and second bolt/piece of protection is a bad idea!
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taino
Oct 28, 2005, 5:50 PM
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In reply to: I have to respectfully disagree with some of the earlier responses to your question. I think a very small person can belay a heavier person on a toprope just fine, and anchoring in is an acceptable procedure in this circumstance. Belaying a leader is another story. A small person needs to be much more attentive, and more aware of where they are standing. I weigh 105 pounds, and more than one person has brushed the ground, not always gently, after taking a fall with me belaying. I did not drop them! I was yanked up to the first bolt, in one case 15 feet off of the ground. If a heavy person (leading) falls with only one bolt clipped there is not very much friction in the system. If they are very far above the first bolt, there is a good chance they will hit the ground, although not at full speed. Again, if the heavy leader falls between the first and second bolt it is also very common for the belayer to be yanked up, and have the leader come crashing into the belayer. Not that much fun for the little guy. If there is a roof above the belayer, above the first piece of protection, the belayer may be yanked up, hit the roof, and get hurt. Summary: inexperienced lightweight belaying a heavy leader, especially if they are likely to fall between the first and second bolt/piece of protection is a bad idea!
Two words:
"Ground Anchor".
Learn when to use one.
T
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taino
Oct 28, 2005, 5:57 PM
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In reply to: I have to respectfully disagree with some of the earlier responses to your question. I think a very small person can belay a heavier person on a toprope just fine, and anchoring in is an acceptable procedure in this circumstance. Belaying a leader is another story. A small person needs to be much more attentive, and more aware of where they are standing. I weigh 105 pounds, and more than one person has brushed the ground, not always gently, after taking a fall with me belaying. I did not drop them! I was yanked up to the first bolt, in one case 15 feet off of the ground. If a heavy person (leading) falls with only one bolt clipped there is not very much friction in the system. If they are very far above the first bolt, there is a good chance they will hit the ground, although not at full speed. Again, if the heavy leader falls between the first and second bolt it is also very common for the belayer to be yanked up, and have the leader come crashing into the belayer. Not that much fun for the little guy. If there is a roof above the belayer, above the first piece of protection, the belayer may be yanked up, hit the roof, and get hurt. Summary: inexperienced lightweight belaying a heavy leader, especially if they are likely to fall between the first and second bolt/piece of protection is a bad idea!
Two words:
"Ground Anchor".
Learn when to use one.
T
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lilkrissy
Oct 28, 2005, 6:52 PM
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Now I remember why I usually just lurk...
Ever caught anyone who weighs almost twice as much as you while anchored in? I have, and let me tell you, it SUCKS! Jerked off you feet, then suddenly slammed to a stop. Not too nice on the back. Ever tried to belay keeping your tie in tight so that if the leader falls he gets a back-breaking static fall, rather than you getting jerked around? It's tough. The OP wanted to know about taking his newbie lightweight girlfirend climbing, and having her belay him (also a newbie). He should know that if he wants to lead, it's not going to be super fun for her to catch his falls. In addition, one or both of them could get hurt. Sure, I belay big guys if I have to, but not on sport climbing projects with low cruxes-where they certainly don't want a static catch from an anchored belayer, and I don't want to be sucked through the first bolt.
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rocamosca
Oct 29, 2005, 7:35 PM
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If you are top roping, shouldn't be a big deal. I weigh in around, 140 and I've regularly belayed my buddy who runs around 275. Thats a fairly significant weight difference. If your paying attention on a top rope the climber is not going to generate that much force in fall, your basically just holding their body weight. Sure he pulls me forward and up a little, but as far as actually holding him there is no problem.
Using a ground anchor, like tying into a tree can definitely have its uses. Someone mentioned before that when your tied to a tree and catch a fall it gives them quite a jerk. However, If you've got the belay device tied to your belay loop, and tie in to the tree around your belay loop. If you keep the line against the tree taught, and keep yourself positioned properly, the force of the fall goes against the tree, and you just stop the rope from sliding through the ATC.
Tying into trees has some downsides tho, first off the method I just described is going to give a very static catch, no good if leading, especially if the fall is of a decent size.
The other problem is just making sure the line runnning to the tree is not going pull you off balance in a fall situation. If the tree line raps around your hip or some other awkward situation then when it all comes taught you could be pushed/pulled off balance, no big deal I guess, its just not pretty, but make sure you don't let go off the brake hand!
*Just my musings on the subject, I'm no expert. Please consult a credible source for proper information.
/not accountable for anything that happens
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4togo
Oct 29, 2005, 8:26 PM
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Learn how to give a dynamic belay while anchored in?
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e_free
Oct 29, 2005, 9:06 PM
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In reply to: Two words: "Ground Anchor". Learn when to use one. T
Two words:
"many bruises."
Learn to love em. :wink:
E
In reply to: Learn how to give a dynamic belay while anchored in?
you can only go so far if you're anchored in :P once you've gone as far as you can, you hover in midair and get some nice pictures like the ones below.
on the other hand, being forcd to use a grigri definately did NOT make me happy either :x
anyway, the guy had a good time for his 2nd time climbing. i got these with a ground anchor and a partner outweighing me 50-60 pounds falling on tr multiple times, belayed off my harness with a grigri:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=58010
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=58011
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=58012
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crgwhe
Oct 29, 2005, 10:07 PM
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I have yet to see anyone mention taking practice falls. My partner out weighs me by about 75 pounds and can't climb worth crap. Needless to say, he falls allot.
We practice catching falls on tr in the gym where secure tr anchors and soft floors are available. I'll stop belaying about 5 feet from the top of the climb then my partner will jump once at the top. Mix it up a bit by calling "stop belay" as you climb then come off the wall without warning.
Each person has their preferred method for catching a heavier climber. I find a dynamic belay by allowing the rope to slip through my break hand using an ATC-XP just as it begins to stretch works best for me and I have tried them all. Look up numerous methods and allow your light weight partner to practice each and determine what she prefers.
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chanf
Oct 30, 2005, 1:38 AM
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Being of light weight myself, i have no problems belaying other people who are much heavier. I really hate being anchored in-- and I think a dynamic belay is pretty nice, since it gives a soft catch. However, it does suck for the leader or if they're trying to get up something, and every time they fall the climber has to work through the tough spots all over again. So, while it's not problem for me as a belayer, it might be a bit frustrating for the climber.
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crgwhe
Oct 31, 2005, 5:13 AM
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In reply to: Being of light weight myself, i have no problems belaying other people who are much heavier. I really hate being anchored in-- and I think a dynamic belay is pretty nice, since it gives a soft catch. However, it does suck for the leader or if they're trying to get up something, and every time they fall the climber has to work through the tough spots all over again. So, while it's not problem for me as a belayer, it might be a bit frustrating for the climber.
Very true. But that can't be helped unless the belayer is anchored to something and fully locks off if the climber falls. If no anchor point is available and the climber nears the crux, stop actively belaying and walk towards/under the climber.
If the climber falls the lighter belayer can fully break without lowering the climber as a dynamic belay would. Being directly under the climber lessens the effect of being pulled by a heavier person.
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theonlynebraskaclimber
Oct 31, 2005, 6:14 AM
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In my gym the rope goes around the top anchor twice so there is so much friction i can belay someone way heavier then me and it feels like they weigh nothing.
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bad_lil_kitty
Nov 6, 2005, 2:25 AM
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I'm 5'3" and weigh 140; two of the taller/heavier folks I've been able to belay were 6'5" and 6'6" approx (probably nearing 200 w/out a doubt). No problems as I was also anchored.
edited to add: both were outdoors and indoors, not that it made a huge difference; however, the achors were.
blk
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