|
|
|
|
pyramid
Nov 24, 2005, 3:20 PM
Post #26 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 51
|
I have roped soloed on ice and top rope soloed as well. Soloed alpine routes in the U.S. Canada and Europe, but usually only when I wanted to
climb alone, and only after years of climbing with partners. The best way
to climb ice when your alone is without a rope. My early season routine is to go out and climb WI3 to get the head right, then push it to WI4, usually
on climbs I know well. I climb up and then down.
Out here in CO ropes aren't freezing as much but when they do it creates huge problems. I was soloing a hard WI5 after a snow and my devise froze up after I was about 90ft up, almost crapped my pants, slammed in a screw clipped to it and thought about my options. Put a prussic on the rope but I had no cordage. I had 60ft to go so I said f#@k it and climbed on out of there without any room for error.
My advise is to climb a few years with a partner before ever contemplating soloing anything at height, ie... climb 20ft off the ground and then back down, other wise have a partner. Hopefully a cute girly.
Happy Turkey day.
|
|
|
|
|
ridgeclimber
Nov 24, 2005, 3:36 PM
Post #27 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 163
|
Interesting story, and good to have some input from someone who has rope-soloed on ice. What type of device were you using when it froze up? What did you intend by tying a prussik? As a self- belay device? If so, what was to stop it melting the rope?
I didn't quite understand the rest of your post; after your device froze up, did you just climb the rest of the route free-soloing?
Thanks,
ridgeclimber
|
|
|
|
|
adnix
Nov 24, 2005, 8:28 PM
Post #28 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2003
Posts: 584
|
In reply to: But I have heard of people doing it, not waterfall ice, but on alpine routes;
The typical distance between protection points can be very high on alpine routes. According to my logic having a rope doesn't make much difference in reality (unless you're in the most popular areas with heli rescue, of course). One option is that you die slowly with a broken hip and the other is that you die fast hitting the ground.
|
|
|
|
|
pyramid
Nov 25, 2005, 3:34 PM
Post #29 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 51
|
Sorry if I wasn't clear. Wren devise, prussic to keep me at least
feeling good about something. Basically climbed without protection
to the anchors. Fresh snow everywhere, and that was the problem,
froze everything up. Years of soloing easy ice helped immensely.
|
|
|
|
|
kungfuclimber
Nov 25, 2005, 4:31 PM
Post #30 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 6, 2002
Posts: 162
|
In reply to: the reason: falling on ice is not allowed, period. if you fall while leading, you will almost certainly be f--- up somehow, and getting off the route and out to civilisation/warmth is paramount--doing so alone is much more difficult and dangerous..
Let me give a few examples:
1) I was leading what was supposed to be grade 3 ice but the bottom had melted out, leading to overhanging chandeliered ice. It got hard quick. At the back of one of the many ice roofs there was some solid, glass clear ice. I put in a 22cm screw with a screamer (it took alot of work but was worth it..). so I kept going and got in over my head. Trying to pull this overhang to an ice ledge I lost it and fell. I fell about 5 meters. Because a) the ice was acutally overhanging, b) chandeliered, c) I was on double ropes and a screamer, the catch was super soft. Where my crampons hit the ice on the way down the ice broke away. The screamer ripped halfway. I was not hurt at all and was very lucky.
2) My friend was climbing some moderate ice. On the walk off he slid a bit and his crampons bit in the ice. The ice was solid and this was the result:
http://www.engsoc.carleton.ca/...images/new/x-ray.jpg
I was very lucky, even a small fall can ruin your day.
|
|
|
|
|
rossgoddard
Nov 26, 2005, 4:06 AM
Post #31 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 181
|
ridge,
i think you need to get out ice climbing to really understand why rope soloing doesnt work with it.
re rope soloing alpine routes, i believe steve house rope soloed a pitch or two on k7. i give him a bye on that one, as he is the most efficient ice climber i have ever watched (dracula, wi4+, frankenstein NH). us mortals cant handle that kinda stuff, even on easy ice.
-harrison
|
|
|
|
|
ridgeclimber
Nov 26, 2005, 4:27 PM
Post #32 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 163
|
I tend to agree with you, and I certainly won't go out soloing ice before I get some experience.
That said, there has been at least one person on this thread who has rope-soloed ice, and I have read other threads where people say they rope-solo alpine climbs using clove-hitches. I'm not advocating it, but what is your opinion on this?
|
|
|
|
|
rossgoddard
Nov 26, 2005, 5:18 PM
Post #33 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 181
|
alpine climbing and ice climbing i like to move light and fast. the antithesis of rope soloing. in the alpine, there is no point. bring a partner along for safety, simulclimb and pitch it out when you need to. ice climbing you should be 90% confident that you arent going to fall- a little less confident than you would be if soloing. why deal with ropes and such if you are alone (no social interaction between partners). get a little more dialed, and solo it.
the only time i really see soloing as a practical technique is aid climbing, where i happen to use it quite a bit.
-harrison
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Nov 26, 2005, 5:29 PM
Post #34 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
In reply to: No, I don't have experience on ice.
Ridge:
I say this with all ue respect and all that, but if you don't have much experience on ice then you really have no business climbing ice solo.
Not trying to be an ass... really, I'm not.
|
|
|
|
|
ridgeclimber
Nov 26, 2005, 7:40 PM
Post #35 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 163
|
Reno:
In reply to: I certainly won't go out soloing ice before I get some experience.
:wink:
But thanks for your concern.
rossgoddard: what you say makes complete sense. But sometimes on alpine routes you encounter mixed climbing. Say, for instance, that you are on some dense, thick, hard ice, and you see more ice above you, then a blank headwall with just enough holds to climb by drytooling and no cracks for protection. If you want to rope up, then your only option for a base anchor is the hard ice you are standing on. Personally, would you choose to rope up or free solo?
Thanks, ridgeclimber
|
|
|
|
|
anykineclimb
Nov 26, 2005, 8:00 PM
Post #36 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 3593
|
In reply to: rossgoddard: what you say makes complete sense. But sometimes on alpine routes you encounter mixed climbing. Say, for instance, that you are on some dense, thick, hard ice, and you see more ice above you, then a blank headwall with just enough holds to climb by drytooling and no cracks for protection. If you want to rope up, then your only option for a base anchor is the hard ice you are standing on. Personally, would you choose to rope up or free solo? Thanks, ridgeclimber
besides, you can always go around... :roll:
hey who the Hell has that sig line here from jeff lowe?
something like "a rope gives the illusion of security, real security comes from not falling"
|
|
|
|
|
ridgeclimber
Nov 26, 2005, 8:10 PM
Post #37 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 163
|
I never claimed to have extensive experience. In fact, if you look at my posts, I say just the opposite.
I didn't have a particular route in mind when I gave that example, but I think it's a reasonable hypothetical.
Does anybody have an opinion about the example I gave above?
Thanks,
Ridgeclimber
|
|
|
|
|
anykineclimb
Nov 26, 2005, 8:19 PM
Post #38 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 3593
|
yes, we ALL know you don't have any experience. That is painfully obvious
Whats getting annoying is despite EVERYONE saying not to do it (because its too DANGEROUS) you insist on wanting to try it anyway. even though you have NO experience! you ask for opinions from experienced people then just blow it off because you think its doable anyway? you are mocking people genuinely concerned for your safety.
read through this thread again. all the answers are already here.
In reply to: Does anybody have an opinion about the example I gave above? |
|
|
|
|
iceisnice
Nov 26, 2005, 8:22 PM
Post #39 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 874
|
i'm with Reno 100% on this. however, unlike him, i'll be an ass. if you don't have experience in ice then soloing is pretty fucking stupid. ice climbing very different than rock climbing. 99% of ice climbing is learning the medium. its about gaining a wealth of experience on ice (10x more than you did on rock) and then soloing. as its been point out...ropes, screws, belays....all give a false sense of security. i would also add that running laps on toprope at Ouray, or something like that, isn't the kind of "experience" you need. i would say that if you think it is ok to solo ice with out experience you are either very niave, or stupid. there, i said, i'm an ass. i don't really care.
|
|
|
|
|
ridgeclimber
Nov 26, 2005, 8:28 PM
Post #40 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 163
|
In reply to: Whats getting annoying is despite EVERYONE saying not to do it (because its too DANGEROUS) you insist on wanting to try it anyway. even though you have NO experience! you ask for opinions from experienced people then just blow it off because you think its doable anyway? you are mocking people genuinely concerned for your safety.
I'm bewildered. When did I ever mock anyone? :?: In fact if you read the thread, then you would find that I said I never intended to solo anything until I had more experience. Despite what you're ranting about, I never blew off anyone; I'm asking questions. I never insisted it was "doable." But thanks anyway.
Does anyone have a coherent opinion about the example I asked about? Simply going around isn't always feasible.
|
|
|
|
|
roy_hinkley_jr
Nov 26, 2005, 8:38 PM
Post #41 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652
|
For your scenario, free solo is the only answer that makes sense...much easier for them to scoop the body at the bottom than retrieve it part way up.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Nov 26, 2005, 9:03 PM
Post #42 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
In reply to: Does anyone have a coherent opinion about the example I asked about? Simply going around isn't always feasible.
Sure.
"It Depends." (tm)
It really does... sometimes you're better off making a few free moves, with no pro at all. Sometimes it's best to do a few moves of French Free climbing. Sometimes you'll bust out the alpine aiders. Sometimes your best bet is to go down and around. Sometimes the best idea is to rap/downclimb, return to your car, and go home, alive to climb another day.
Your Original Post question was so vague as to defy any chance at a comprehensive answer. Add to that your admitted lack of experience on ice, and the tendency of each situation to be unique, and you'll understand why people here won't give you hard-and-fast answers.
Sorry, guy, but that's the way it is.
|
|
|
|
|
ridgeclimber
Nov 26, 2005, 9:38 PM
Post #43 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 163
|
Alright, I understand what you're getting at. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to force an answer out of any of you; I accepted the answers that you gave. Thank you to everyone who helped.
One last thing, pyramid: you said you rope-soloed on ice. What where the particulars of your situation that you deemed it safer to rope solo than to go sans rope like the other posters in this thread suggest?
Thanks,
Ridgeclimber
|
|
|
|
|
pyramid
Nov 29, 2005, 2:09 PM
Post #44 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 51
|
I was up on the Argentiere glacier in 89 climbing 300ft Mur De Grand Blue
without a partner so I rope soloed having found sufficient rock for an
anchor. But this wasn't the only time. Perfer to have a partner, more
enjoyable. 8^) Don't listen to iceisnice, my friend says he climbs with
no skill.
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Dec 5, 2005, 2:51 AM
Post #45 of 45
(3677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
In reply to: At the risk of being a dink, I'd say you haven't done much multi pitch ice climbing...
I'm a pretty avid ice climber. 23 years plus. Lead ice prior to learning to rock climb. Maybe its an old school mentality, but, for ice climbing, it shouldn't be: do not fall.
Anyhoo, have fun, be safe, happy turkey day, don't fall, yada yada...
Brian in SLC
In reply to: In reply to: I was thinking about what rope-soloing on ice would involve Nobody does that.
I'm Nobody, completely self-taught in the beginning, rope-soloed on clove hitches up to WI3+ till i found a partner, now would solo before roped soloing on ice.
Listen to this next guy. Trust us.
In reply to: Brain knows his s---, his info is dead on. |
|
|
|
|
|
