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yazey
Dec 13, 2005, 11:08 PM
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I have a hypothetical (to spare embarrassment, and friendship)
You have a friend that started climbing with you and has been at it for
full year. In that time he/she has taken an extensive climbing course
giving them a great understanding of technique, safety, anchors, ect.
They continued to climb with you learning new technique, constantly quizzing you as you lead yet another route, or set up yet another TR for the enjoyment of the group and to push new grade levels. They have since then researched, and bought enough gear to give any trad climber a woodie.
There remains just one obstacle left for your budding partner.
LEADING!!!
After huffing their rack out to the best 5.4 crack in the park, you cannot
believe your ears when they again say, "I think I would feel better if you lead it?"
At some point you thought they would jump on the sharp end, but still have not (sorry ladies) had the balls to do it. And believe me name calling has been, and continues to be used.
My question is this.
When is it OK to starting TAXING that beautiful new rack of his?
The gear is still shining, and I could put it to good use the next time I need to drag his ass up.
Any thoughts, or different ideas on getting him motivated to make that step. I know if I were to lose a #3 cam, I would grow some balls and climb.
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veganboyjosh
Dec 13, 2005, 11:23 PM
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refuse to lead?
take him/her to an easier climb, and then refuse to lead?
offer beer/food/sex/gear if they can muster up the courage to do it?
lead up the first pitch of an easy multipitch, get to hte belay, when they get there, refuse to lead any more pitches, and refuse to rap down. make them do it.
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tradrenn
Dec 13, 2005, 11:36 PM
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You lead all the climbs, have fun, get your milage, experience, etc.
On top of that you don't have to spend something like $2000.00 or $3000.00 on gear. That's got to be pretty sweet.
If your partner doesn't even want to lead 5.0 then I don't know what to tell you. ( I know what to say but I don't want to get flamed )
8^)
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esoteric1
Dec 13, 2005, 11:42 PM
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I used to have a partner that did the same crap, i actualy liked it though because it gave me the chance to lead all I wanted. keep him till you outgrow him....other than that......go buy a rack man.
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slavetogravity
Dec 13, 2005, 11:47 PM
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You bring the rack, I’ll bring the rope.
I suppose I always thought this was common knowledge. Taxing’s got nothing to do with it. Two people climbing together should be willing to share the ware and tear on the gear being used. R
egardless as to who’s on the sharp end the gear’s being equally used buy everyone in the group. A nut’s going to have just as much of a chance of getting stuck or getting beat up buy the person pulling in or buy the person putting it in.
Besides, what’s the point of hauling out two racks of gear?
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greenketch
Dec 14, 2005, 1:47 AM
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Now I am sometimes known as a jerk, sometimes as other things. So take this with a grain of salt.
If I understand the OP correctly here is what I would do.
1) Find a route easily within my abilities.
2)Lead the route, being carefull to place a bunch of junk pro with an occasional good piece.
3) let em second.
4) Reply to the anticipated comments with "If you really feel like you can do better thtn you should do it." :twisted:
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kayo
Dec 14, 2005, 2:06 AM
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I'm fairly new to climbing, but have been around the block a few times with initiative task and high ropes courses in outdoor rec facilities and whatnot, which is highly transferable here.
Your friend is nervous, putting him up on a rock and making him do something he is not comfortable with is a great way to make him lose it on the wall and lose his trust in you (which is somewhat critical).
Be blunt, tell him you want him to lead, talk him through it, hell if all he can do at first is place the first piece then come down, screw it its a step forward, right?
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gordo
Dec 14, 2005, 4:24 AM
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Heck, I'd be tickled :lol: "Ok, I'll lead them all...but we use your rack, my rope" Easy and fair, and you get more than your share of the fun 8^)
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octarine
Dec 14, 2005, 5:12 AM
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Agreed. I think that any kind of "taxing" of gear for ropegunning for someone is unacceptable. He's letting you use his rack, so you don't put any wear on your gear, feel lucky. I'm new to this whole climbing thing, but so far I've only had good experiences and have come to believe that the climbing community is a lot like a family- so share, but don't tax, I don't think that goes along with the cooperative nature of the community we should be at least trying to build.
If he's uncomfortable with his placements then have him try mock leading or practice aid clmbing until he develops confidence in his pieces. Otherwise, I like the suggestions posted so far for creating impetus. If he's still not comfortable, just accept it and know you'll be leading for him when you two go climbing. The sharp end isn't for everyone.
Anyway, that's my long and drawn out opinion.
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majid_sabet
Dec 14, 2005, 6:25 AM
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Climbing is slightly different than most other selfish one man kind of sport; most good climbers share their skills and toys, Since climbing is always better with 2 or more people, you got to get in to the habit of sharing your equipments. I got not problem with others using my rack and every thing else except my rope, unless I am on it.
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yazey
Dec 14, 2005, 2:18 PM
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OK. So the concesus so far is, No Taxing.
Man I was looking forward to that new C4.
Oh well.
i hope to go out sat with him, and come to think of it. It may be the
first time climbing without a "group". Usually there is at least 4-6 people
around when we climb, and most of them lead. Partnering up may be
just what he needs to calmly asses the route and his skills.
And believe me, if I knew he was going to carry his rack too, I would have
left mine in the car. FYI, this last time. The route was "The Bong" in Jtree.
do i need to say more?
I love climbing with this guy, and I know he is ready to make the next step.
But of course the last thing I want to do is push him too hard.
on a side note:
I am a little surprised at the seriousousness of the posted replies.
Doesn't anybody think taxing is at least a little funny?
We did, and ment it as a joke. I mean I would probably give the C4 back
to him at camp, right?
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j_ung
Dec 14, 2005, 2:26 PM
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Hi yazey,
I posted this thread a while back; it may help a little. During several years of guiding and teaching, I learned a few good tricks for progressing people into trad leading slowly and, I thought, relatively safely. Take you want, leave the rest. :wink:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=825219#825219
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kappydane
Dec 14, 2005, 2:54 PM
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Having your own personal belay slave that also brings the gear is about as good as it gets. I have had trips where I picked up on climbers that didn't want to lead. It was great. I picked all the routes and got to lead every pitch. I might think about telling him how "scared" you were on every pitch and how tough each lead was or how sketchy the pro was.
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yazey
Dec 14, 2005, 3:30 PM
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Kappydane, I love that idea!
My wife suggested that I make him a t-shirt that says, "Belay Biatch"
and let that be his TAX.
:lol:
j-ung
thanks for the link. It has good suggestions.
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thatnameisalreadychosen
Dec 16, 2005, 12:38 AM
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LOL - yazey - you are killing me
If "He" ever reads this thread he will kill me for telling you and kill you for posting it
:lol:
"Him" and I started climbing at about the same time (about a year ago) and he hasn't cured the yeast infection in his mangina yet - that's all - some infections need repeated heckling - i mean encouragement
but ill start using his rack instead of mine rather than eye-ing it up looking for what its going to cost him
yazey and i were thinking one cam per day - after all a cam costs about as much as admission to Disneyland. Jtree is just more fun and less evil.
Favorite suggestion:
lead up the first pitch of an easy multipitch, get to the belay, when they get there, refuse to lead any more pitches, and refuse to rap down. make them do it.
:lol:
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Dec 17, 2005, 10:19 AM
Post #17 of 18
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Tell him/her that they need to start using their poor poor gear. I mean what the heck is wrong with them? Taking their gear out climbing and then not doing anything with it. Cams have feelings too.
Yeah yeah, anyway, just tell ´em that they bought their gear to use it and they should. If they choose not too ask them if you can use it, then tell mention casually that you´d prefer if they had the first honorary go with their gear.
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cchildre
Jan 16, 2006, 10:19 PM
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First, if I had a partner with a new rack....we are breaking that thing out and abusing it! No questions, and if they tried to stop me....I would offer the lead to them, but the next climb would utilize their rack. To really cement the point, on lead with their gear, be sure to jam some cams in, fixed gear style, so they get stuck and hopefully won't come out. I know it is bad eticut, but if he is loosing gear off his rack and has not even lead anything. He might realize his folley.
Second, if the above does not motivate them, I would turn to taxing his rack.
Maybe a cam for every two months of brushoff or like every 6th trip, maybe even 15 leads who knows, you take extract them.
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