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madrock
Dec 13, 2005, 11:04 PM
Post #26 of 63
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I think I can tell the difference. You are the first one right??
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stymingersfink
Dec 13, 2005, 11:09 PM
Post #27 of 63
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In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. Wash it like any other rope, the brush and mind detergent will work just fine.
*some* people just don't know ^^Sh!t^^ from Shinola.
All rubber is just the same, too. Some just tends to have better friction properties and wear longer, but then *some* wouldn't know about that EITHER!
In reply to: The fact that the Dry Core thing was started a marketing stunt was explained to me clearly by owner of Steriling Rope who is now no longer in the climbing industry. .
In reply to: No one is asking supid questions. The issue was Sterlings DryCore. If you think its a dry treatment follow this link to their site where they will set you straight. According to Sterling it helps with abrasion much like a standard lubrican finish might do. According to them it is not a dry treatment. http://www.sterlingrope.com/2005/faq.asp#h3_4
So how about a little re-cap. Rope company designs rope, calles it DryCore, tells you its not a dry treatment, and is no longer in the climbing industry? Wonder why that might be.
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stymingersfink
Dec 13, 2005, 11:12 PM
Post #28 of 63
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...and another thing, why would ANYONE take advice about ropes from a boulderer?
Wanna know about dry ropes? ask any ICE climber... Sometimes their lives may depend on them.
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robdotcalm
Dec 13, 2005, 11:19 PM
Post #29 of 63
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About 15 years ago, I was climbing with two half-ropes at the Tennessee Wall , when I got caught in a rainstorm. Both ropes were from the same manufacturer and were identical except that one was a “dry” rope and the other a standard rope. It seemed to me they both got equally wet. When I got home from the trip, I dried both ropes thoroughly. I weighed both ropes. Then I soaked both ropes in a bathtub for about 10 minutes and reweighed them. To within 1 or 2% each gained the same amount of weight. My conclusion: the water resistant properties of the ropes might have been different in the beginning, but after a couple of weeks of climbing and rappelling, there wasn’t any difference between the 2 ropes. I published a letter with these results in “Climbing”. The editor allowed a rope manufacturer to respond. He never really dealt with the topic. A sales representative from a rope manufacturer told me later, that after a few rappels there wasn’t much left of the water resistant properties.
I don’t know whether water-resistant treatment has improved in the intervening years. My guess is that a water resistant rope is probably helpful for something like glacier travel but meaningless for crag climbing. I emphasize that this is a guess, since I have not tested any ropes since then. On the other hand, the lack of meaningful and quantitative data from the rope manufacturers causes me to believe that my guess is correct.
Gratias et valete bene!
RobertusPunctumPacificus
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robdotcalm
Dec 13, 2005, 11:22 PM
Post #30 of 63
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The advice is often given to wash ropes using a “mild soap” or a “mild detergent”. I’ve always regarded this as urban myth since I’ve never seen any evidence that the resulting properties of the rope would be any different than if one used an ordinary laundry detergent. Perhaps, I’ve missed something. If so, let the world know.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
_______________________________________________________
‘Tis better to have trad and failed then not to have trad at all.
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madrock
Dec 13, 2005, 11:31 PM
Post #31 of 63
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Hey Rob, what was the brand and model or rope that you had??
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stymingersfink
Dec 13, 2005, 11:51 PM
Post #32 of 63
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In reply to: A technique you might find common among half-rope users would be the following scheduled rope life. [olive]Season one: ICE ONLY!. Dragging them over rock abrades the sheath, giving water more surface area to attach to. It will also speed the wearing off of the dry treatment on the surface of the sheath. "Dry" ropes tend to absorb less water in my experience, and when that water is no longer liquid you're left with cables. Frozen liquid ON the sheath can be dealt with, but water INSIDE the sheath is another story. Store these cords during the summer. [/olive] Season two: ICE ONLY. You will notice the ropes beginning to develope more surface glaze when exposed to liquid water, due to the fuzzing of the sheath. They don't dry on your basement floor nearly as quickly.
Season Two, cont'd: use them for trad routes. If any big whippers are taken they may be retired just on General Principle, but regular thorough examination should be sufficent to feel good about the condition of the rope. The surface dry-treatment has worn off long ago, the core dry-treatment still makes for a better hand and less absorption during a summer rainstorm. Season Three: Winter's just around the corner, it's time for some new doubles. The pair you've been using all summer will come out of winter storage next spring for their final season before retirement, allowing the summer storage of your newly purchased cords. Of course, If you sport climb in the summer, you'll need a single-strand rope. You don't expect it to get wet, so you get a standard finish, and find that over the life of the rope it doesn't have quite the handling characteristics you were expecting. now, I'm a cheap bastard I'll admit, but as an employer once said to me: "If you don't take the time to do it right the FIRST time, how will you find time to do it right the SECOND time" Ropes last a long time when properly cared for. They aren't cheap. If you really want to compare the two, purchase the "DRY CORE" rope FIRST so you'll KNOW what you're missing when you retire it and replace it with a "Standard" finish rope. Then you'll kick yourself for trying to save a few bucks on the front end, only to have to deal with it till you can afford a new rope, or are forced to retire it. |
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pastprime
Dec 13, 2005, 11:52 PM
Post #33 of 63
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Saying somethin like "I had a dry rope that didn't stay dry" without naming a manufacturer doesn't give much information. In the early years of Gore tex a lot of products from other manufacturers claimed to have the same properties, but didn't, but that didn't mean Goretex was a fraud.
I'm having a very hard time believing dry ropes are a complete hoax that has been going on for at least 35 years without anyone having noticed that they didn't stay any drier than standard ropes.
Maybe Goretex doesn't work either, and nobody has yet noticed that they are getting wet when it rains.
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crimpandgo
Dec 13, 2005, 11:55 PM
Post #34 of 63
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So, what you are tryin to say is... All companies are trueful in their advertising??? I should believe all those infomercials afterall??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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stymingersfink
Dec 13, 2005, 11:59 PM
Post #35 of 63
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dwebster
Dec 14, 2005, 12:03 AM
Post #36 of 63
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In reply to: No one is asking supid questions. The issue was Sterlings DryCore. If you think its a dry treatment follow this link to their site where they will set you straight. According to Sterling it helps with abrasion much like a standard lubrican finish might do. According to them it is not a dry treatment. http://www.sterlingrope.com/2005/faq.asp#h3_4
Actually the issue never was Sterling, you brought them up or rather singled them out. The original issue was about washing a rope with dry treated core.
And again I will point out that a lubricant is not a marine finish. The standard lubricant nylon producers apply is called a spin finish. Marine finish is an entirely different animal.
So once again, please tell me which nylon 6,6 core rope you "worked on".
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dwebster
Dec 14, 2005, 12:05 AM
Post #37 of 63
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:oops:
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dwebster
Dec 14, 2005, 12:28 AM
Post #38 of 63
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:?
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dwebster
Dec 14, 2005, 12:56 AM
Post #39 of 63
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Sorry about that triple post! WOW! What the hell happened?
All of a sudden I can't view my own posts when I'm logged in.
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stymingersfink
Dec 14, 2005, 6:20 PM
Post #40 of 63
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One thing I have noticed, and you may too, is that ropes that have been washed tend to feed less smoothly through a belay device. Specifically when on rappell or when lowering a partner.
The use of a rope-specific wash such as NikWax Rope Proof MAY mitigate such issues, but as stated previously, I can be a cheap bastard sometimes so I have no direct knowledge if this is true. In the past I have used the PMI Rope Washer ** and was amazed at the ammount of greyish water flowing from the thing as I pulled my rope through. I ran my rope through the thing 4-5 times before the water ran clear, but if I wanted to go all out i would probably follow with a soak in a bucket of NikWax Rope Proof for a length of time before drying the rope.
** $30 is kind of steep for an only occasional wash. See if your local shop might pick one up and offer it to customers for rent in say the $3 range? Find out how many times a season the clerks are asked about rope washing, and when they realize how frequently they answer the question they just might go for it. Easy $$ for the shop, plus they could add on sales with the rope proof too.
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madrock
Dec 14, 2005, 7:46 PM
Post #41 of 63
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The question was directly related to his sterling rope which he believed had a dry core and might require special washing instruction (direct and good question) My response was the same, direct and good. Unlike many responses posted to this thread which have nothing to do with the original question.
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madrock
Dec 14, 2005, 8:07 PM
Post #42 of 63
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Username: dwebster (User)
Member Since: 24 Aug 2004 10:19
Last Login: 13 Dec 2005 19:35
Current Location:
Forum Posts: 38 Find all posts by dwebster
Photos: Find all photos posted by dwebster
Hey DWEBSTER why don't you be a little more honest with the other members and tell them what company you work for and where you are from?? They can probably tell by now anyway.
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jakedatc
Dec 14, 2005, 11:12 PM
Post #43 of 63
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hey madrock.. maybe you can stop being a fucking tool and go back and try to make some products that dont suck?
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stymingersfink
Dec 15, 2005, 1:00 AM
Post #44 of 63
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In reply to: hey madrock.. maybe you can stop being a f---ing tool and go back and try to make some products that dont suck?
Note: operative word is TRY
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madrock
Dec 15, 2005, 1:10 AM
Post #45 of 63
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Glad you have so much to offer regarding the post. I am sure it will help him with the rope cleaning question he ask. Your product expertise is impressive and appreciated.
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curt
Dec 15, 2005, 2:06 AM
Post #46 of 63
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In reply to: In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. I don't believe this. All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them. Jay
Hey Jay,
By that logic, do you believe that Excedrin Migraine and regular Excedrin are different in some way? :D
Curt
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jt512
Dec 15, 2005, 3:36 AM
Post #47 of 63
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. I don't believe this. All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them. Jay Hey Jay, By that logic, do you believe that Excedrin Migraine and regular Excedrin are different in some way? :D Curt
No, and that's a borderline case; they're not really making any specific claims about the formulations. Compare that with a rope manufacturer specifically claiming that two of its models are identical except that one has a dry-treated core, which offers a safety advantage over its non-dry rope in wet conditions. If the supposed dry rope really didn't have a dry-treated core, then they would be lying to get you to pay more for a non-existant feature. I do not see how that can be anything less than fraud.
Jay
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curt
Dec 15, 2005, 3:41 AM
Post #48 of 63
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. I don't believe this. All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them. Jay Hey Jay, By that logic, do you believe that Excedrin Migraine and regular Excedrin are different in some way? :D Curt No, and that's a borderline case; they're not really making any specific claims about the formulations. Compare that with a rope manufacturer specifically claiming that two of its models are identical except that one has a dry-treated core, which offers a safety advantage over its non-dry rope in wet conditions. If the supposed dry rope really didn't have a dry-treated core, then they would be lying to get you to pay more for a non-existant feature. I do not see how that can be anything less than fraud. Jay
Well, I was thinking much the same thing about Excedrin. They re-name and re-package their same old product (implying that this new stuff is somehow better for treating migraines) and they then jack the price up.
Curt
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jt512
Dec 15, 2005, 4:15 AM
Post #49 of 63
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. I don't believe this. All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them. Jay Hey Jay, By that logic, do you believe that Excedrin Migraine and regular Excedrin are different in some way? :D Curt No, and that's a borderline case; they're not really making any specific claims about the formulations. Compare that with a rope manufacturer specifically claiming that two of its models are identical except that one has a dry-treated core, which offers a safety advantage over its non-dry rope in wet conditions. If the supposed dry rope really didn't have a dry-treated core, then they would be lying to get you to pay more for a non-existant feature. I do not see how that can be anything less than fraud. Jay Well, I was thinking much the same thing about Excedrin. They re-name and re-package their same old product (implying that this new stuff is somehow better for treating migraines) and they then jack the price up. Curt
It sounds like a borderline case. Their claims about the formulation and benefits are vague. They would likely claim that they are just emphasizing different aspects of the product to different market segments. If they are really charging more for the one labeled as a migraine formulation, who knows, maybe they are breaking the law.
Jay
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curt
Dec 15, 2005, 4:22 AM
Post #50 of 63
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Hey, don't sweat the whole dry core issue. Its a marketing scam. All cores for climbing ropes are produced with a white nylon fiber center. White nylon from Dupont or Allied comes standard to all rope manufacturers and other types of manufacturers with a lubricant finish so that it can pass easily through the machines to produce various products (the lubricant finish also acts like a kind of dry finish, although not a great one). A few crafty companies have decided to advertize this as some kind of super special feature that is only on their product. What you bought was a standard rope with a finish like any other. I don't believe this. All Beal ropes have dry-treated sheaths. In addition, some have dry-treated cores, which they charge more for. I do not believe for a second that these ropes are identical to their non-dry core ropes, and they are just arbitrarily charging more for them. Jay Hey Jay, By that logic, do you believe that Excedrin Migraine and regular Excedrin are different in some way? :D Curt No, and that's a borderline case; they're not really making any specific claims about the formulations. Compare that with a rope manufacturer specifically claiming that two of its models are identical except that one has a dry-treated core, which offers a safety advantage over its non-dry rope in wet conditions. If the supposed dry rope really didn't have a dry-treated core, then they would be lying to get you to pay more for a non-existant feature. I do not see how that can be anything less than fraud. Jay Well, I was thinking much the same thing about Excedrin. They re-name and re-package their same old product (implying that this new stuff is somehow better for treating migraines) and they then jack the price up. Curt It sounds like a borderline case. Their claims about the formulation and benefits are vague. They would likely claim that they are just emphasizing different aspects of the product to different market segments. If they are really charging more for the one labeled as a migraine formulation, who knows, maybe they are breaking the law. Jay
Well, they do charge more for the "migraine" version of their product. That is why I offered this as an analogy. I have no idea if this is illegal or not, but it seems similarly fraudulent to me.
Curt
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