Idiot. Todd Skinner put up very few of the routes at Sinks. Killer was equipped by the Greg and Mike Cook and redpointed first by Greg Collins. There is a drilled .13- start to Killer. It's a stupid little slot and maybe another bad pocket. Nobody ever even thinks of doing it. Most of the manufacturing in Killer Cave happend in the blank rock that starts some of the routes in the center of the cave (no, it's not right, but that's how it is). I always get a kick out of the people who insist that the jugs in the cave are manufactured, but ignore the routes on the Hardware wall that go up blatantly chiseled and cut out edges (none of these are Skinner's routes).

I haven't seen Todd in years, but I always knew him to be a kind spirit. If you judge people by their oververall kindness and goodwill, Todd is an outstanding individual.

limestone gets comfortized, period. who cares if it is more or less than somewhere else?

wes,
when you responded to saxonyclimber, you forgot to address these parts of his post. Your hominem attack on Skinner was a bad idea, because your claim that Todd "obviously did" chip Killer was challenged by factual information. You may have valid arguments regarding Skinner's ethics (in climbing), but this is the kind of childish behavior that makes me less willing to consider what you have to say.

Hey Wes: religious-style arguments aside, what's so bad about a drilled pocket in a blank section of wall anyway?

because your claim that Todd "obviously did" chip Killer was challenged by factual information. You may have valid arguments regarding Skinner's ethics (in climbing), but this is the kind of childish behavior that makes me less willing to consider what you have to say.

Hey Wes: religious-style arguments aside, what's so bad about a drilled pocket in a blank section of wall anyway?

My feeling is if it can't be removed with a soft bristle brush it is staying on my route until, as you said, it comes off naturally through climber traffic, if ever.

This will never happen because nobody will ever climb your routes if you don't comfortize the holds.

There are grey areas...they are called "Life". There have been other people throughout history who saw things in black and white...they have done things like shoot up abortion clinics, fly planes into buildings, drag people behind pickup trucks, etc.

The rock in question at Sinks and Wild Iris is Dolomite, not limestone. The extra magnesium in the mix seems to make it a bit sharper and harder than limestone.

He has no doubt done some stuff that many would not agree with, but that is the nature of trying to push the limits for a while.

This is coming from someone I've caught in lies before (lies about me, though I've never met you). So if someone lies you ignore them, but you lie, and we are supposed to listen to you.

I'm not saying good or bad about Skimmer's personality, I don't know him. It just seems that access problems, accusations, and angry locals are his biggest legacy. I wonder why that is the case?

1) I heard Todd drilled the alternate start to Killer and I have yet to hear anyone claim otherwise. The project I was talking about to the right of Killer was also said to be one of Todd's, drilled pockets and all.
Todd did not established/bolted or chipped any of the routes in Killer Cave. Piana, Dusl, Collins and the Cook bros. put up most of the route there.2) I really don't care if you are willing to consider what I have to say. I say what I want and if you can't tell the obvious inflamatory remarks made ofr entertainment from the things you should really be considering that is your problem.

blow me

Is it not true that rudeness is a weak man's imitation of strength, power and knowledge?

nope, that has been proven wrong many times

Actually,
That matter was focused on YOUR lies. You led people to believe you had done routes that you had not.