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ubotch
Apr 1, 2006, 4:42 AM
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Registered: Jul 19, 2002
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So this afternoon when I got off work I went aid climbing for the first time. Actually it was more of aid bouldering since I didn't have a belay. After reading several books and dozens of posts on this site I had a pretty good idea of what to do and it actually went quite well (yeah, I know, what could go wrong when you're only 6 feet off the ground). I do however have a few questions after actually giving it a shot.
1. As far as I understand it, when climbing I am always attached to a piece using a daisy. Now if I take a fall, won't I horribly shock-load whatever piece I am on by falling straight onto my daisy? That doesn't sound like a particularly nice option. Am I missing something here or do I just deal with falling statically onto the daisy?
2. I am attaching my aiders and daisy to the piece with a BD positron keylock biner. I figured this would be good as it would snag less. I noticed, however, that the gate was often forced open by the rock as I was standing in the aiders. That doesn't seem like too big of a problem because as long as I am weighting it, it shouldn't come off. Is that right or should I be using a locker (seems like a big hassle).
I know these are probably pretty basic questions but I'm just not quite getting it.
By the way, as odd as it sounds my first experience aid climbing was awesome. It was strangely fun, probably partly because it is the first step to tackling a wall.
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fearlessclimber
Apr 1, 2006, 4:51 AM
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basically what happens is you place you piece assuming that you are rady to go with your daisy chains conncted to your aider just incase you drop them. From there you place your first piece, you will then test the piece easily and maybe give it a bounce test. After that you will step up and if tou have a fifi hook which is very usefull you will use that to keep you close to your piece. that is after you step up. once that is done you will be ready to place your next piece. That is just kindof the simplified version of that, but those are just the basic mechanics.
dont forget to clip your rope into the biner :lol:
wasnt sure what you were asking so i just layed out the simple mechanics.
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fearlessclimber
Apr 1, 2006, 4:53 AM
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ahh, i see what you are asking now, no you do not fall statically onto your daisy chain, that is not a good thing to do. YOu will be falling onto the rope :o
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holdplease2
Apr 1, 2006, 4:56 AM
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I have a keylock locker on my daisy. I only lock it when I need to for whatever reason. I wouldn't want to be bounce testing a piece when something was trying to force the gate open. You don't have to lock it every time, but its a nice option. Not many people seem to do it, though.
Regarding the static daisy falls: When you use a rope it will make more sense. As your waist passes your lower pro and you are climbing onto your higher pro, clip the rope and unclip the daisy. You don't want to be falling onto your daisy.
This takes more self control than you would think...its hard to decide its ok to fall farther (rope stretch, etc.) when you feel safer attached closely to good pro with your rope. I still climb above my daisy sometimes, though I know I shouldn't. :oops:
Hope this helps, and glad you are having fun!
:)
-Kate.
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ubotch
Apr 1, 2006, 5:33 AM
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Well, maybe I'm not getting it because I haven't actually tried it with the rope but...
Say for instance I have just placed my next piece and am testing it. Correct me if I am wrong, but at this point I have not clipped the rope into the piece I am standing on. If the piece I am testing fails, then won't I be dropping onto the piece below?
Thanks for the advice on the biner. A locker that I don't always lock makes sense.
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cracklover
Apr 1, 2006, 6:19 AM
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In reply to: Well, maybe I'm not getting it because I haven't actually tried it with the rope but... Say for instance I have just placed my next piece and am testing it. Correct me if I am wrong, but at this point I have not clipped the rope into the piece I am standing on. If the piece I am testing fails, then won't I be dropping onto the piece below?
Hopefully you'll catch yourself on that lower piece with a hand and foot, rather than falling onto it. I've ripped a couple pieces while bounce-testing them, and have always caught myself on the lower piece in this way. Of course, with a big traversing move, this may be impractical. C'est la vie.
GO
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holdplease2
Apr 1, 2006, 6:27 AM
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Hey ubotch:
What you do is you clip one daisy into the top peice and one is still in the bottom.
Then you stand so that your belly is about even with the bottom peice and you are holding it with your hand. You are "clipped in short" to it with some wiggle room.
You stand with one foot in the aider on the bottom piece and one foot in the aider on the top peice, with your feet about even.
You look down, not up, as you test, or you will knock your teeth or eye out when the top piece hits you in the face. You'll only do this wrong one time. ;)
Now, you bounce a little on the top piece, staying in balance over the bottom piece too. Then bounce harder...really hard if the peice MUST hold a fall, or just a bit if the peice just needs to hold your body weight.
DO NOT LOOK UP. Seriously. You will be tempted. Resist!
Then get on the top peice.
If the top piece blows, you catch yourself with the hand and foot on your bottom peice.
When traversing its harder, you make smaller moves if you can.
:)
-Kate.
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tattooed_climber
Apr 1, 2006, 6:46 AM
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and after you learn to move up, then comes the gear whoring...oh, the shameless and coupious amounts of gear whoring
i found, easy way to help make a routine (or learn one)....setup a fixed TR, and belay your self with a basic or what have you...(You can still practice 'clipping' the rope in after your ascender has moved above you're last peice of pro)or same idea, and you could just backclean to save on gear and just have fun
..half of my winter aid i did on fixed TR...something about taking solo falls of Rurps and peakers just ain't all that appealing to me...but then i bought my HUGE ASS PikA flake hook....a #3 FLAT Ibis hook......YAHHHHHHHH!!!!best 25 bucks i've ever spent......see, i'm being a gear slut again
if ya can stomach it, all the old PTPP threads are a good read
** Index To Dr. Piton Stuff **
but the basic mechanics of upward aid movement is as follows:
In reply to: Joe's 11 steps: 1. Step up HIGH. 2. Look at the next crappy place you are going to hang your sorry ass from 3. Put a metal widget in it 4. Clip a daisy to it. 5. Bounce test it. 6. Smoke a cigarette. 7. Run up your aiders and fifi into the piece itself or the biner clipped to it. 8. Sigh pathetically. 9. Drink a king kobra/old English 800 10. Unclip your daisy from the last piece and clip the rope into it. Daisy whippers are the realm of the fool. 11. Come to the realization that aid climbing is boring and not very sexy, sell your pins and start big wave surfing or knitting. |
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brutusofwyde
Apr 1, 2006, 3:55 PM
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Best to stay below your last piece when testing the next one. Shock loading can then be kept in the range of inches. That's one of the reasons for 5 and 6-step aiders.
Test, switch rope and daisy, then run to top step. repeat.
Wouldn't recommend trying to use your feet to stop if your top piece blows. Good way to becom inverted while airborn. Ditto testing above your last good piece, high stepping with twin aiders and the rope situated between your feet. If you fall you're gonna smack your head for sure. Not good when you have a day's worth of rappels just to get to the ground.
testing protocal depends, of course, on if you're running up a C1 crack, leapfrogging cams, or easing up a string of rattly beaks on an A5 horrorshow.
If the rock is forcing the gate open, you're doing something wrong. Clip in so the gate is not against the rock.
Brutus
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ubotch
Apr 1, 2006, 5:52 PM
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Registered: Jul 19, 2002
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I get what you are saying now about tying in short and holding on to the other aider while testing. I went out this morning and did a mock lead on TR while clipping in behind me. Like Kate said it made more sense with a rope.
I just posted some more questions about my climbing today. Anybody who wants to keep helping the new guy out can click here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/110008
Thanks
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