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ubotch
Apr 1, 2006, 5:46 PM
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As some of you probably read in my other thread, I went aid climbing for the first time yesterday. Well it was so much fun that I got up at 6 this morning and went out again. This time with a rope. I climbed A Major Concept at Mt. Rubidoux. I still didn't have anyone to belay me so I set up a top rope and belayed myself with a Grigri (with backups of course). After doing this a couple more questions presented themselves.
1. While on the slab and vertical portion of this route 1 fifi was fine. However, there is an overhanging section and I really felt like 2 fifis would have been nice. Am I just a pansy or do you people use 2 fifis with your setup. There was already a horrible cluster of gear but it seems like it may be worth it to have another fifi on the steep stuff.
2. Cleaning was a bitch. Getting those small nuts out was really tough. It would have been nice to have a hammer. So do you carry a hammer for cleaning even on clean aid routes?
Thanks again for any help. Going out with the rope and mock clipping in on the way up did clear up some of my questions (just like Kate said).
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euroford
Apr 1, 2006, 5:56 PM
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1. i have heard of guys using a 2nd fifi on the chest harness for aiding very steep stuff. personally, i've never done that and i'v never felt the need to do so, including aiding out roofs or other continuous steep areas.
2. cleaning bounce tested nuts is a bitch, but i've never needed a hammer to get one out. i keep the nuttool on a big arse heavy OP D screwgate, taping the tool with this heavy biner has sucessfully dislodged ever stopper i've yet encountered. hammers are cool, but hammerless is cooler.
i guess these things just come with practice, so go get some eh!
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tattooed_climber
Apr 1, 2006, 6:11 PM
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...ya...afew folks (me included) like to have a kong adjustable fifi on the chest harness (for like said, for steep or Overhangin stuff)......and some people do take hammers on clean aid route for tapping out nuts
a number 9 (if you cant find them anymore, than a #8) lost arrow and a hammer can be godsend for cleaning
tthe cluster fuck factor (ref to your gear) is all apart of the gear management involved with aid...
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stymingersfink
Apr 1, 2006, 6:20 PM
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my partner uses two fifi's, though I prefer to use just one. A kong adjustable... I can clean it from the piece I'm standing on, extend it, hook it to the next piece and test-weight the piece before I bounce-test it for real. It's also pretty handy for horizontal hook moves, as I can gently weight the fifi-hook and swing slowly plumb to the piece.
Of course, the adjustable fifi/daisy comes with it's own CF issues, but you'll figure out the best way to deal with those... I try keep it clean and straight between each move and this seems to help.
As far as cleaning small nuts, the nut tool can prove invaluable when used in conjunction with a tapping tool of your choice. With off-set nuts, you can often tap the top corner to loosen the placement. Try to avoid tapping the smaller nuts from the bottom where the wires come out, as this can often damage the wires. Larger, stopper style nuts tend to be a little more forgiving.
Something to keep in mind: How far do you feel comfortable climbing above gear when leading trad? It all depends on the dangers of falling in each particular circumstance, right?
If it's going to be a super-clean fall with straight-forward cam placements ahead of you, take them with you (back-clean) until you no longer feel good about the possibilities of a clean fall. When you anticipate needing to leave a piece of gear behind, try to make that next placement a bomber nut or other passive protection piece. This may allow you to carry fewer multiples of cams to get the job done, while leaving fewer pieces of gear to clean later, so you'll be faster on that end of things too.
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brutusofwyde
Apr 1, 2006, 8:45 PM
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I don't use fifis, so I can't help you there. They create too much fustercluck. Much prefer adjustable daisies, with a carabiner chain for "up close" work.
When testing, I usually have a hand on the piece I'm testing. Helps prevent it hitting me when it pops, and second the advice about not looking at the piece. I definitely think stopping a fall with your feet in aiders is a bad idea, and trying to use your arms to stop a fall is extremely tiring. I let my weight come onto the harness when the top piece pops. the weight is either attached to the "good" pierce by a carabiner chain, or by the daisy. (see earlier comment about limiting such falls to a matter of inches... far less force than an aggressive bounce test generates)
As far as clean cleaning, I usually carry a hammer if doing ASCA bolt replacement work. If not, I'll carry a Pika Nut Buster. (http://www.pikamtn.com/1boltinggear.html) Get behind the right party on Half Dome regular route, and you can finish the climb with half a rack more nuts than you started with, from the Zig-Zag pitches alone.
Brutus
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tradclmbr
Apr 1, 2006, 8:47 PM
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whats better than 1 fifi hook on c1/c2 aid? 2 fifi hooks? nope.....adjustable daisies and 0 cluster-f caushing fifi hooks
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euroford
Apr 1, 2006, 9:49 PM
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i significantly upped my speed by going from adjustable daisy's to regular. its a totaly "whatever works for you" topic.
until recent times i climbed exclusivly with adjustable daisy's, 4 aiders and a fifi. during that time period (2000 to 2003) i climbed exclusivly at the witchita's (in ok), almost always solo, usually on shorter (3 pitches at most, wouldn't be full rope lengths) routes with some very hard sections (up to a4). i had no care for speed and would frequently spend an entire long day on one of these. i did care very much about testing placements and being very smooth and cautious. i took only 1 fall during those three years when a rivit pulled.
after moving up to chicago i did no aid climbing during 2004, but did meet a regular partner and by the 2005 season i began introducing him to aiding and now that we are comming on 2006's season we have made plans to do a wall.
this commitment has finally brought 'the need for speed' into my climbing and i have since changed over to two regular nylon daisy's and two wall ladders w/ a fifi. i have found this to be significantly faster with a VAST reduction in clusterfugging. i have tried the 'keylock' biner approach instead of a fifi but have found it cumbersome, inconvient and slower. granted the fifi is certainly less secure, but i found with experience its easy to judge what forces will be placed on it and i act accordingly. most importantly i like that a little dip in my hips will cause it to fall out allowing me to move up to the next piece without using my hands to disengage from it.
i also found that no other item was a bigger waste of time that dicking around with my adjustable daisy's.
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brutusofwyde
Apr 1, 2006, 9:59 PM
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In reply to: i significantly upped my speed by going from adjustable daisy's to regular. its a totaly "whatever works for you" topic.
Agreed.
Seems to me that part of your speed resulted from going from 4 aiders to two. That would definitely reduce the clusterage. I generally only use 2 aid trees on my russian aiders unless I'm on extremely difficult, traversing, or overhanging routes.
as for adjustables -- some like 'em, some don't.
Me, best thing I've found since no-hands belaying.
(ducking for cover)
Brutus
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ubotch
Apr 2, 2006, 2:07 AM
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Registered: Jul 19, 2002
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Interesting ideas. I guess I'll just have to keep playing with it and see what works for me.
For now I will just make sure I carry my biggest hex on every route and use that or a large biner for tapping out stuck nuts.
Thanks again for the input
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tradclmbr
Apr 2, 2006, 3:33 AM
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Good points......adj daisies reduce cluster and speed things up for SOME people not others. For me the difference was night and day and I felt like I could really get into a nice rythmn with adj daisies. Then again, Im no speed aider either.
I started with the standard set-up was reluctant to mess with my system (thought it would slow me down), then found out aid climbing is about tweaking the system to find what really works for you.
Ive mostly a combo etrier/ladder attached to each daisy (4 total aiders), but really liked going down to two with a third floater the last few times I went out. So far less stuff to entangle = faster (be it fifi, aider, etc.)
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