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swervin
Apr 22, 2006, 6:40 PM
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Here's a question for all you self proclaimed professionals out there. My wife weighs quite a bit less than me and often has trouble belaying me on a standard atc. I am currently using a 10.3 mm rope and I really can't decide which belay device to try. The atc xp sounds like a really high friction device, but I've heard complaints about sheath slippage and trouble loading larger ropes into the device. The atc guide looks to be a nice piece but it hasn't been out long enough to have many threads on it's performance. So should I pick up one of Black Diamonds high friction devices or are there any other suggestions?
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shanz
Apr 22, 2006, 6:45 PM
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I outweigh my wife by about 65 pounds we use a 9.8 rope and trango jaws she never has a problem - i dont hang dog or TR much though
Trango jaws all i have to say
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tweek
Apr 22, 2006, 6:55 PM
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Hi Swervin,
My wife and I are in the same situation (~60 lbs difference.) She got a ATC-XP a couple years ago and loves it. We climb on ropes between 10 and 10.5mm and she has no problems using it for anything. It has replaced her tried and true ATC. I too have used it and think it is a very good device.
I have not used the BD- guide.
And I do hang dog when in the gym and TR a lot. She feels much more confident catching my lead falls on the XP compared to any other device she has used.
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cintune
Apr 22, 2006, 7:14 PM
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Setting a good upward-pull anchor is the best way to address the weight discrepancy. The merits of extra-grippy belay devices have to do with augmenting brake-hand strength.
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elnero
Apr 22, 2006, 7:49 PM
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Yep, set a good anchor to keep her on the ground. As for the XP, I've got one and it works really well on the gym ropes around here, even the fuzzy ones, so no worries there. The Guide, though I've never used it, seems to have the same breaking mechanisms as the XP, with the added autoblock features, so probably no difference there.
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scuclimber
Apr 22, 2006, 7:52 PM
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In reply to: The XP, though I've never used it, seems to have the same breaking mechanisms as the XP, with the added autoblock features, so probably no difference there.
I think he meant the Guide. The Guide's teeth are actually less promounced than the XP's, although I think it would still provide enough friction for most peoples' taste. I like my XP well enough when I'm belaying somebody heavy.
Colin
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rhythm164
Apr 22, 2006, 7:57 PM
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I'll vouch for the ATC XP too, I've never had a problem with the sheath or larger ropes, I even got a 11 mm static line through it. It provides a very nice catch on either friction mode. Also, do you anchor her off when she belays you? That might help too. Probably a stupid question...
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tweek
Apr 22, 2006, 8:28 PM
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In reply to: Setting a good upward-pull anchor is the best way to address the weight discrepancy. The merits of extra-grippy belay devices have to do with augmenting brake-hand strength.
Although the merits of a good upward-pull anchor are worth touting, explaining to your climbing partner that, "the reason you always get burns on your hand when catching my Large a** as it comes flying off the rock is because your hand is not strong enough," is a unproductive conversation and can easily be avoided through a nominal expenditure or funds (and I like buying gear anyway.)
More to the point, my climbing partner does not lack brake hand strength nor experience and although i cannot comprehend the physics (please, no one not try to explain them to me, I do not care) in which she would have more rope slippage than someone of equal weight to me, it seems to be the case and is easily fixed. I too would use an XP (and upward pull anchor) if someone I was climbing with weighed 60 lbs more than me.
Solid point about the anchor cintune.
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shanz
Apr 22, 2006, 8:37 PM
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Anchor definantly a good point but technique is more important than hand strength
Large ass?? 17 inch arms and wings like bat man only two other things are small my ass and well um we wont go there :lol: :lol: :lol:
I had to say something heheh
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climbsomething
Apr 22, 2006, 9:33 PM
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My weight difference is often greater than 60 pounds. Closer to 80 or 90. Over the past 5 years, I have only belayed one or two adults who weigh within 30 pounds of me.
I use a GriGri or a regular ATC for TR and lead belaying, and the Wild Country SRC at the gym (because that's what's attached to the ropes). Sometimes I have an anchor for lead belaying, sometimes I don't. (Where I live and climb, cracks and trees tend to be minimal.) I never have an anchor for TR belaying, unless the stance is sketchy and exposed.
I was taught how to properly belay under various (weight) conditions. I just don't drop people because it was immediately stressed to me how that is simply unacceptable.
So, call me a "self-proclaimed professional" in whatever tone you wish, but truth is, skill is better than any gadget. (that said, if you want a really solid gadget, especially for handling weight differences, get the GriGri and learn how to use it)
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jakedatc
Apr 22, 2006, 9:55 PM
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I agree with Hillary. ive belayed people twice.. yes.. twice my weight with a regular atc, atc jaws, and HB sherrif(current) and have no problem. i havent lead belayed someone that much more.. but at least 40+ more and havent had any rope slipping..
either anchor down or get in close to the rock and learn how to deal with extra weight pulling.
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tradklime
Apr 22, 2006, 10:50 PM
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My guess is that her issues have more to do with the atc itself. There are many better options that feed just as easily, grab the rope better, and don't wear into a sharp edge as fast. My personal favorite is the Trango jaws, when considering performance, weight, and effectiveness on the whole range of rope diameters (7.7- 10.8 personal experience).
atc's are soooooooo 10 years ago. They should go the way of the stitch plate they replaced.
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charley
Apr 22, 2006, 11:02 PM
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Atc's may be so f**c*king ten years ago but, I still have friends that use stitch plates and I am satisfied with my atc. It does the job safely so why get something new. If I bought every new belay device that came along I wouldn't be able to climb with the weight.
For the op, anchor your wife esp in dangerous situations and try two biners on the device, it gives you much more friction. If the belayer is near the wall and paying attention she should be safe.
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musicman1586
Apr 22, 2006, 11:11 PM
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If she's having trouble hold you while you hang or are resting, just tell her to pull the rope behind her back (like hip belaying sorta, and wrap it around to the other side and lock it off there, sorta like you would with an 8 while rapelling. Obviously this doesn't work if she's catching you on a lead fall, but if your just there hanging and the rope is slipping from her, that method will work. I weigh about as much or less then alot of women out there and it's never failed me before.
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bootlegger
Apr 22, 2006, 11:28 PM
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I'll agree the XP may be your best bet if you're doing only single pitch stuff and very little rappelling. I have an ATC-Guide and it has higher friction than the regular ATC, but somewhat less than the XP. If I remember correctly, the XP provides 3 times the friction of the regular ATC, and the Guide provides twice the friction of the regular ATC. Only complaint I've heard about the XP is that, if you're light, it's difficult to rappel on (too much friction). I'm about 140 lbs and the Guide works great both on rappel and belaying heavier folks. One of my regular partners is about 60 lbs heavier than me and it works fine with him. Obviously, if you're doing multi-pitch you get the benefit of the autolock feature (which is why I bought it).
Two other options mentioned are also decent choices - the Gri-Gri (which is considerably more expensive and a little harder to feed rope on lead belay but gets you autolock) or putting an extra biner in the regular ATC. Can't comment on the Trango Jaws.
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tradklime
Apr 22, 2006, 11:36 PM
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In reply to: It does the job safely so why get something new.
In reply to: If I bought every new belay device that came along I wouldn't be able to climb with the weight.
:wink:
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austinclmbr
Apr 23, 2006, 12:00 AM
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I have an order in for a trango JAWS for my girl, I am about 60 lbs heavier and she had the oppurtunity to try one about a week ago. We did some tests taking 5, 10, and 12 foot falls. She seems to think that there is not much difference between the ATC XP and the JAWS at 5 feet but after that says the difference increases with hieght. Ofcourse there is no scientific evidence to back this up, but if it increases her confidence when belying then hey, I am all for it. We also compared the standard ATC and a stitch plate, which she says average about the same, both coming in far short of the XP and JAWS.
hope this helps.
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sspssp
Apr 23, 2006, 6:39 PM
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I find the jaws works well. She could also belay with a light leather glove. Another option is the Cinch. It takes some getting used to when lowering, but it is easy to feed and easy to lock off.
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bodyboarder
Apr 23, 2006, 6:52 PM
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my girlfriend weighs about 70 lbs less than i do. she uses a grigri and i fall a lot.
Jason
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kmsmoguls
Apr 23, 2006, 11:24 PM
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If you are concerned about getting a large diameter rope into the ATC guide or XP don't worry. I climb at a gym that uses large ropes that get stiff over time and I have never had any problems.
Erik
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swervin
Apr 24, 2006, 11:34 PM
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Thanks to all of you who posted informative comments my wife's brake hand and my unbroken bones are forever in debt to you. To those of you with the attitude problems thanks for making a new guy feel really welcome.
And to all of you "self proclaimed professional" was in no way meant to be degrading we all must exercise some degree of professionalism or we wouldn't be doing what we do.
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tattooed_climber
Apr 24, 2006, 11:42 PM
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one of my special lady friends has no prob belaying me with an atc-xp...with a 10.5m rope....i'm 190ish plus gear and she's 115 or something...though, i always make her and anchor at the base for upward pull.. bla blah ablh blah blah
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bluenose
Apr 25, 2006, 12:19 AM
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90 lb difference here, ATC. Gloves make all the difference.
My daughter belays me but she is a rather agressive belayer (doesn't give me much slack) which also helps as a fall is hardly a fall so there isn't much to "catch". TRing for now, leading may be a different story, might think about trying a more aggressive device then.
Jeff.
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dudemanbu
Apr 25, 2006, 2:31 AM
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As long as your wife is anchored down, she shouldn't have any problems using any belay device on the market, unless you're using very skinny ropes (below 9.5mm). If that's the case, she should probably get a reversino, mammut matrix, or other similar devices designed particularly for skinny ropes.
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