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mother_sheep
Jun 12, 2006, 5:14 PM
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I’d like to hear from parents who climb on this one.
As some of you know, I’m a Mom of 2 boys, ages 7 and 11. 50% of the time they are with their father. I get out cragging locally 2x per week or if I’m lucky I can get something multi-pitch in after work on those days. 90% of my weekend climbing time is spent in the mountains, be it moderate alpine climbing, couloirs, 3rd -4th class scrambles or just slogging up 13-14ers. I love being in the mountains.
Note: I never take time away from my sons to go climbing. I don’t feel like I have enough time with them anyway.
One thing that I’ve noticed lately is how guilty I sometimes feel for climbing. I spend a lot of time without a lot of conversation on my weekend routes so my mind has plenty of time to wander. I’ve had moments at belays, knowing that I’m doing everything in my power to keep myself safe, where I become very sad because I feel guilty for being a parent who can’t get her satisfaction out of life by being “normal”. We all know the dangers of climbing. And most of us know other climbers who were typically safe and well versed in what they do who have perished. None of us are immune to the hazards. And this is where my guilt stems from. Sometimes I wonder, in spite of everything I do to keep myself and my partner safe, am I selfishly shortening my life by doing what I do? It’s possible. Because it’s possible, I feel guilty.
Technically, the routes I climb are nothing that can be considered “hard climbing” by a ratings standard. They would probably be considered tough by some because of the altitude, hazards and the amount of hours required to complete a route, sometimes not under the best conditions. I’ve slowed down over the past year when it comes to the routes that I’m willing to do and who I’m willing to do them with. I’m constantly learning and safety is secondary to nothing.
I try to justify my passion by saying, “If I didn’t climb, I probably wouldn’t be as happy and my kids would be able to feel that.” I feel like climbing enhances my life and as a result, the fact that I climb also enhances my son’s lives because I'm happy!
Why can’t I feel guilty about going to work every day? Crossing the street by my office, which also happens to be the HUB of where our school bus drivers operate out of, seems far more dangerous than climbing. I need to find a way to shift my guilt or alleviate it entirely.
So, those of you still awake after reading this crap, anyone have similar thoughts?
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slablizard
Jun 12, 2006, 5:21 PM
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MS....You're not alone. Yesterday I went climbing in the morning, sent a project I workerd on for a while and ZIPPED back to be there for a little-boat regatta of my son (7). we built this little balsa wodd boat to race in a gutter with other scouts. Having climbed my project I was so full of energy and willing to have a great time with kids/wife. If you are satisfied you can give attention and care to your loved. I need to climb to be satisfied...so...
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drrock
Jun 12, 2006, 5:26 PM
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In reply to: I’ve slowed down over the past year when it comes to the routes that I’m willing to do and who I’m willing to do them with. I’m constantly learning and safety is secondary to nothing.
I think you are already one step ahead of the game. That is what climbers do if they have others who care for or need them. We back off when we feel unsafe, climb with those in whom we trust, and try to stack the odds in our favor.
[qoute]I try to justify my passion by saying, “If I didn’t climb, I probably wouldn’t be as happy and my kids would be able to feel that.” I feel like climbing enhances my life and as a result, the fact that I climb also enhances my son’s lives because I'm happy!
I think you answered your own question. I am with you on this one, but slightly different twist. I have a one year old boy. I love spending time with him, he is just the light of my life. In addition, when I am with him it means less work for my wife, as we can share duties, trade playing and watching, diapers, she can go out, etc. However, we both know that I am a much less happy person if I can't make time to climb. I go to the gym once or twice a week and when we're around on the weekend I go sport cragging one day of the weekend. I usually only go on one big trip per year. I think I would go nuts if I couldn't do this. Yeah, I feel some guilt over not being there, but also gratitude to my wife for understanding.
As far as your situation, it seems to be less *time* and more *danger* that you are concerned about. However, since you are taking the precautions you describe, IMHO you are doing right.
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mountain_racer
Jun 12, 2006, 5:30 PM
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I understand completely, my wife just isn't as into climbing as I am (or would like her to be) but now my daughter is getting into it and that takes the pressure off. Take your kids into the mountains with you when you have them. They will thank you for it later.
Neither of my parents were into climbing, but they were skiers and sailors so I learned to love the outdoors. I thank them every time I get to climb, bike, hike, sail, ski, etc. Without their positive encouragement I would just sit here in front of my computer all day, oh yea I do that sometimes too (but only if my health requires it). I love the fact that my daughter would rather we play outside than watch the boob tube, and that is significant in this society of constant entertainment.
I will say that my climbing style has changed in the sense that I may not be as bold or take the chances that I used to but I still feed the "rat," it's just a less muscular and less voracious rat than before ;)
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doubledare
Jun 12, 2006, 5:43 PM
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hmmm. I read your post because I too feel parent guilt at times but not in the way you do. My guilt isn't from the possibility of dying...I am much more likely to die on the freeway (and you probably are too--I-25 and I-70 are terrible) but I don't feel guilty about driving to work. Life is always a cost/benefit anaysis or risk assessment and most competant climbers have a low risk and high benefit ratio (we're not talking solo ascents of Everest or anything!)
My guilt comes from taking my kids climbing and exposing them to, or even encouraging them to take up a sport that is seen as risky. For instance, a few weekends ago my 11-year old girl did Three Pines in the Gunks--a 5.3 easy. She wore a helmet and we were safe the whole time but she would be SAFER if she were home watching videos.....but would she have a fulfilling life if she always chose the safest occupations and sports?
I have told a few people at work about taking my kids climbing and they treat me like I am giving my kids crack, so I kinda keep it on the low-down.
Should I feel guilty about spending time outdoors with my kids climbing while so many other parents just basically ignore their children and watch TV--but AT LEAST THEY ARE SAFE!
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mother_sheep
Jun 12, 2006, 5:43 PM
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COOL! Some of you are awake after reading all of that! :lol:
In reply to: Take your kids into the mountains with you when you have them. They will thank you for it later.
Yeah, on weekends my sons know that chances are slim to none that we'll be home. We do lots of camping and hiking. I'd like to take them rafting this summer too. It will be a first for me as well. They ski and board, which means I need to learn that pronto! We climb when other parents and kids can join us. I mostly handle instilling an appreciation for the inexpensive, au natural fun things life has to offer, while my ex and his wife do the more domestic/boring stuff like going to the mall. blah.
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mother_sheep
Jun 12, 2006, 5:48 PM
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In reply to: Life is always a cost/benefit anaysis or risk assessment
Yep!
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bill413
Jun 12, 2006, 6:00 PM
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I think you have to do what your passion is. And your kids will see that. They may or may not share the same passion (mine doesn't - sigh) - but they at least see that it's valid to do those things that give you joy.
I don't think there is a great answer about what happens if you are injured or killed while doing it.
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tylore66
Jun 12, 2006, 6:24 PM
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Good post!!
I am a father of 4 kids, 17-14-13 and 6. My wife and i separated in January after 17 years together. I started climbing this year and I have ALWAYS had the guilty feelings. Its as though I dont have a right to enjoy myself, or my life. I always thought that it was just me but maybe not. My ex and I have split custody and have one week on and one week off. So far it has worked out great and fortunately my ex and I still have a good relationship.
Recently I started taking the kids climbing with me, mostly every other weekend. Nothing crazy, just TR up at Rose Ledge and they love it. I also love the time that I can spend with them out at the crag exposing them to other things than COMPUTERS AND VIDEO GAMES. I realize that there is danger involved with climbing but there is danger all around us all the time and we MUST NOT LIVE IN A BUBBLE!!!
So dont feel guilty!! Let your kids know how important climbing is with regard to maintaining your sanity etc. If and when your time comes, so be it. It could happen driving to work, golfing, fishing etc!!
The number one thing is that they need to know how much you love them, never let this go un-said.....That would be truly regrettable.
:D
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dingus
Jun 12, 2006, 7:29 PM
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If you don't feel a sense of guilt with respect to your responsibilities to your kids you're probably either perfect or a sociopath. Or both.
You stike me as neither (haha).
My sense of guilt with respect to my children really escalates when I damn near get them killed at something. When I'm being 'one of THOSE dads.'
Took em canoeing last week down a river we had no business setting in. We got through some very large and very unexpected rapids (large by lake canoe standards that is). My friends weren't so lucky, swamped twice and lost their boat.
So the next day we went back, me and my two friends, to retrieve their canoe. This time I did not get us through the rapids. When I hit that icy cold water (running at 1900 cfm!) I knew, ohgodIknewitinmybones, that had my daughters landed in that it would have been bad bad bad.
I could barely get out myself, despite wearing a life jacket. God knows how I would have managed with my kids in that.
I dry heaved on the bank for several minutes, not for what happened to me, but for what I almost did to my kids.
I'm still sick to my stomach when I think about it. I put my kids as close to death's door as I think they have ever had the misfortune of straying. All because I didn't presonally check the conditions prior to setting in (MY fault).
So I took em climbing this weekend instead. It felt MUCH SAFER!
There is no cure mothersheep, save coming home in one piece. Just remember (I know you do, what mom couldn't?)... you're climbing for 3, not for 1.
DMT
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thegrobe
Jun 12, 2006, 8:06 PM
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Guilt the gift that keeps on giving! I feel guilty when I climb or ski! My baby is one and obviously too young to ski and climb. My step son is 14 and is into other things right now. My wife loves to ski and enjoys climbing but not quite as much as me. I love to do both with her.
However, sometimes I like to do them with friends or alone. Climbing helps me get away from the pressures of life. Home can be stressful. I feel guilty that I should be with the family or my wife. I know that if I don't climb and ski to release stress I will be more unhappy. It feels like a lose-lose situation sometimes. This thread has been good for me to see that I am not alone. I do not feel guilty for working extra hours becuase it seems like I am directly helping the family. I just need to realize that by doing what I love I am inadvertantly helping the family as well. Everybody should be encouraged to live with passion. Even parents. Children should be the most important reason to live free.
I do not worry about saftey anymore than before I had children. Rock Climbing is preceived to be dangerous, but statistically is far less dangerous than many other sports and certainly driving.
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drector
Jun 12, 2006, 9:18 PM
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Your guilt just shows that you have not yet decided to climb or to not climb. Make the decision. Be 100% sure of your choice then the guilt will go away.
Dave
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codhands
Jun 12, 2006, 9:51 PM
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I don't feel guilty about climbing, because when I climb I am not around my children, (well sometimes I am but not very often and not by choice). Example I will go up climbing during my lunch hour when I wouldn't have time to go see them anyway.
As far as safety goes obviously I want to be as safe as possible so try not to take unnecessary risks. Sometimes you get into a situation that is unavoidable, but not too often.
I just think how lame it would be to be sailing throught the air, towards certain doom, just thinking about my boys and leaving them without a father, and it keeps me in check. I often wonder what was going through Dan Osman's mind as he was heading towards his destiny. Probably something like, "Wow this sucks, and it definately was not worth it. Sorry daughter"
My two cents as much as they're worth.
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mother_sheep
Jun 12, 2006, 10:09 PM
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In reply to: Your guilt just shows that you have not yet decided to climb or to not climb. Make the decision. Be 100% sure of your choice then the guilt will go away. Dave
I see your point but I disagree.
The decision is made 100% the moment I'm on the route. I don't think having thoughts about how the ramifications of climbing can affect my family shows that I'm not in it 100%. To me, the commitment lies in the act of doing. As a parent, I can never be 100% sure but that is a risk I'm willing to take, otherwise I wouldn't be climbing at all. I just feel guilty sometimes for taking those risks.
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mother_sheep
Jun 12, 2006, 10:11 PM
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In reply to: If you don't feel a sense of guilt with respect to your responsibilities to your kids you're probably either perfect or a sociopath. Or both. You stike me as neither (haha). My sense of guilt with respect to my children really escalates when I damn near get them killed at something. When I'm being 'one of THOSE dads.' Took em canoeing last week down a river we had no business setting in. We got through some very large and very unexpected rapids (large by lake canoe standards that is). My friends weren't so lucky, swamped twice and lost their boat. So the next day we went back, me and my two friends, to retrieve their canoe. This time I did not get us through the rapids. When I hit that icy cold water (running at 1900 cfm!) I knew, ohgodIknewitinmybones, that had my daughters landed in that it would have been bad bad bad. I could barely get out myself, despite wearing a life jacket. God knows how I would have managed with my kids in that. I dry heaved on the bank for several minutes, not for what happened to me, but for what I almost did to my kids. I'm still sick to my stomach when I think about it. I put my kids as close to death's door as I think they have ever had the misfortune of straying. All because I didn't presonally check the conditions prior to setting in (MY fault). So I took em climbing this weekend instead. It felt MUCH SAFER! There is no cure mothersheep, save coming home in one piece. Just remember (I know you do, what mom couldn't?)... you're climbing for 3, not for 1. DMT
WOW blingus!!!!! Lesson learned, eh?
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spyork
Jun 12, 2006, 11:41 PM
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I took my 10 year old son out this weekend and he followed me up Knapsack crack (5.5) at Lovers Leap. We had a blast, and I had no guilt. We have been practicing in the gym, and outside at Castle Rock and Pinnacles.
Yes, I know there is a certain amount of risk, mostly in the approach to the slabs, but I feel both of us get so much more out of our time than if he sat at home playing gameboy. I also let him ride his bike around my neighborhood, and that is not without risk.
If I go out alot and climb with friends, I do feel guilty at not having spent time with my boys. But I try to give them as much time as I can while I still have their attention.
You have to strike some sort of balance, IMO.
Steve
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dingus
Jun 12, 2006, 11:57 PM
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In reply to: WOW blingus!!!!! Lesson learned, eh?
Jeez I hope so mother. I certainly hope so.
DMT
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boku
Jun 13, 2006, 12:01 AM
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What Steve said.
I took my 12 year old daughter out this weekend and she followed me up the Regular Route at Sunnyside Bench.
As the unexamined life is not worth living, so too is the unlived life not worth examining.
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angry
Jun 13, 2006, 12:05 AM
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Tracy, you've been climbing for about 5 years now. When you aren't climbing, you're thinking about climbing. When you are climbing, you're thinking about your kids.
To me (not a parent), it seems like you've got your bases covered.
Every single day, some parent orphans their kids. Car accident, disease, rabid squirrel, the result is the same. Participating in an activity that can kill you shouldn't make you feel guilty. At least it's one that you can control the safety to some extent.
Compare climbing with another dangerous activity, say, smoking. One has a chance to extend your life (assuming no accidents) and increased happiness and health improves your time while you're here. The other wrecks your health and gradually drags you down. It sure seems that many smoking parents feel no guilt over their habit.
And finally, having met your boys, it seems to me that they are damn proud of having a mom who is so completely badass. Your intensity is contagious.
It's all a moot point, you couldn't stop climbing on a bet :D
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dirtineye
Jun 13, 2006, 1:13 AM
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Sounds like you are feeling guilty for being a good parent.
BTW, everybody I know who climbs with their little kids, and I mean as little as 3 or 4, enjoys it, the kids enjoy it, and as long as you are reasonable and safe, you are probably a lot better off on the rocks with your kids than at the mall.
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mjroche
Jun 14, 2006, 12:33 PM
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Tracy: I know what you're talking about, and I have two observatins. First, have you talked to the sheep about it. Do they worry about you when you're out climbing. Have you talked to them and explained all the things you do to ensure that things are safe and that you are going to make it back from the crag/peak/ whatever in one piece. Second, there are obviously different degrees of risk associated with the many different facets of climbing -- i.e. bouldering is generally safer than cragging; cragging is generally safer than alpine climbs; roped climbs are generally safer than alpine solos. Picking routes not just based on aesthetic appeal but also based on relative risk might be one way to demonstrate in a tangible way that the kids are part of your life in the mountains. just my.02
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