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bigbiscuit
Jul 12, 2006, 2:48 AM
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Which of the following types of top rope anchors is the best?... Why?
a.) 2 spectra slings connected to 2 top rope rings with locking carabiners and a steel locking carabiner for the rope.
b.) Same except the two slings are tied to the carabiners with clove hitch knots? Does the clove hitch knots add redundency?
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anykineclimb
Jul 12, 2006, 2:51 AM
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NEITHER
why aren't thre TWO biners at the rope???
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bigbiscuit
Jul 12, 2006, 2:54 AM
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You are definately right... I understand that 2 carabiners is safer. I'm trying to figure out if there is any benefit to adding the clove hith knots...
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kriso9tails
Jul 12, 2006, 3:37 AM
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I may not be visualizing something properly here, but...
I'd go with door number a.).
If anything, b) will probably only weaken your system since it just adds twists, and, if you're also putting a clove hitch on the biner that the rope is running through it just seems like it would/ could load the sling wierd. I also don't really see any benifit to adding a clove hitch on a sling fixed to only one anchor point.
Then again, if you're on TR, you likely shouldn't be putting enough force on your anchors to make much difference either way.
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billcoe_
Jul 12, 2006, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: I may not be visualizing something properly here, but... I'd go with door number a.). If anything, b) will probably only weaken your system since it just adds twists, and, if you're also putting a clove hitch on the biner that the rope is running through it just seems like it would/ could load the sling wierd. I also don't really see any benifit to adding a clove hitch on a sling fixed to only one anchor point. Then again, if you're on TR, you likely shouldn't be putting enough force on your anchors to make much difference either way.
Yeah, what he said. Door A.
Big point, they also say using the second biner will broaden the surface area and increase your rope life.
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anykineclimb
Jul 12, 2006, 5:27 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I may not be visualizing something properly here, but... I'd go with door number a.). If anything, b) will probably only weaken your system since it just adds twists, and, if you're also putting a clove hitch on the biner that the rope is running through it just seems like it would/ could load the sling wierd. I also don't really see any benifit to adding a clove hitch on a sling fixed to only one anchor point. Then again, if you're on TR, you likely shouldn't be putting enough force on your anchors to make much difference either way. Yeah, what he said. Door A. Big point, they also say using the second biner will broaden the surface area and increase your rope life.
right. the slings shouldn't be so close to touch. maybe a couple inches apart
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vegastradguy
Jul 12, 2006, 5:39 AM
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on a pair of bolts?
the best? easiest? safest?
two draws
anything else is overkill.
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azrockclimber
Jul 12, 2006, 11:02 AM
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In reply to: on a pair of bolts? the best? easiest? safest? two draws anything else is overkill.
I normally use two regular draws myself but...
If you want to include safest in there you need two locking draws...locking on both sides of each draw... I would consider that safest, easiest, and pretty much the best.
With regular draws they must be set opposite and opposing and I would do the same for locking.
my .2
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antiqued
Jul 12, 2006, 1:57 PM
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If you clove hitched the slings to both the biners on the bolts, and to the biner(s) with the top rope, then there is an increase in redundancy, in that you could cut (or abrade) one side of the sling and still have a connection.
Then you have to decide whether to have equal length sides to evenly bear weight, or to shorten one so that it bears the weight, and a significant drop will occur when it wears through, alerting you to the failure.
This will wind up shortening your slings to more like quick draw length, increasing the angle of pull on the bolts, and maybe putting your belay point in a bad position
Redundancy would be better served by adding a double length runner in the American Triangle configuration. It should bear no weight unless both slings fail, and would be fresh to take up the load.
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cjstudent
Jul 12, 2006, 2:38 PM
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In reply to: You are definately right... I understand that 2 carabiners is safer. I'm trying to figure out if there is any benefit to adding the clove hith knots...
If I am understanding you correctly you are saying put clove hitches on the carabiners at the bolts? You would also have to put clove hitches on the carabiners on the rope end also if you are looking for redundancy. If you only put knots on one end, if the sling broke, the knot would do you no good because it would just come undone at the carabiner connecting the rope. And i think that putting clove hitches in the system like this is a bad idea anyways, and more complicated than other ways to set up more redundancy.
Like others said, if you are working off two bolts, then two quick draws off the bolts, with the carabiners opposed is sufficient, and redundant. If you want more safety you can put a locking carabiner on one of the bolts and put a locker on one of the biners for the rope end.
Your option A) is also sufficient, with two slings it acts like two long quick draws, just put two biners on the rope end.
And if you are looking for more redundancy you can put a short cordalette on the two bolts with a knot at the power point.
Some people will have issues with one of those systems or another, I think they are all safe, of course you run into issues of equilization. Im not getting into which is better. More importantly, im not making assumptions on your climbing experience, but if you are asking these types of questions on rockclimbing.com then I would recommend finding a more experienced climber to teach you more foundations on creating anchors.
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ihategrigris
Jul 12, 2006, 2:53 PM
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Neither; on a top rope, I always use a sliding-x with limiter knots. Also, two locking aluminum biners are alright, especially concidering the potential forces on a tope rope are a lot lower than those on lead.... the steel ones really are a bit overkill.
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bigbiscuit
Jul 12, 2006, 3:59 PM
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Steel is an overkill but is cleaner than aluminum. Aluminum rubs off on the rope and steel doesn't. After swtiching to steel rope and belay carabiners, I don't have to clean my ropes as often...
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