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psprings
Aug 4, 2006, 8:49 PM
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So I've been climbing in the desert for about 2 years now, and I haven't yet hit a chimney that isn't protectable from other cracks in it. However, I'm looking at doing the Priest's Honeymoon chimney, and I've heard that #4 big bros would be good; that there's no protection otherwise.
I've only talked to a couple of other people that have climbed in the desert a lot, and they have said to not bother getting Big Bros.
So what I'm wondering is if people that do chimneys find that Big Bros aren't really needed; how useful are the #4 and #5? I don't think I'd ever get the smaller ones since they seem not as good as a 5 and 6 Friend.
Anyway, just hoping to hear from some people that own them, or have owned them; or from people who've done chimneys at least :P Thanks for the input.
PS
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psprings
Aug 4, 2006, 9:31 PM
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Bump
Also, yes, I'm aware of the only other thread that talks about using big bros (by vegastradguy), I'm just specifically interested in the chimney uses.
Also, if anybody know of rough sizes, that'd be cool. I'm assuming that a #4 is squeeze chimney size, but I'm not really sure how big it opens up, or if it gets into larger size offwidths.
I guess I'm just wondering how versatile these pieces would be. I intend to keep climbing off widths and chimneys as I'm one of "those" types, but I'd like to hear more about there actual usefulness.
Thanks again,
Peter
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atpeaceinbozeman
Aug 4, 2006, 9:35 PM
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1 or 2 #4 big bros are recommended for the Priest. We used them. Good for protecting the wide....
Fun climb BTW....
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vegastradguy
Aug 4, 2006, 9:48 PM
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its funny, i own a set of bros but rarely carry them. truthfully, if its wide enough for bros, most times i'm willing to run it out....
course, if the chimney is harder than about .9ish or so, i'd likely carry the bros for some security.
a #4 big bro starts a little bigger than a #5 camalot and goes to about a foot wide. a #5 bro starts at a little smaller than the #4 and goes to 18".
i consider the #4 the most useful as its bigger than any cam, but not so big as to be insane to carry.
the #5 is, for the most part, trophy gear! :)
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psprings
Aug 4, 2006, 9:53 PM
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Thanks, I'm looking forward to it when it gets a bit cooler down there. I've done Jay Man and Kor Ingalls on Castleton, and I was able to protect those chimneys with other gear, so I was just curious. Now Texas Tower may be a different story, when I'm ready for that, LOL. Go armed for bear, and big ones at that :P
Have you found the #4 useful for any stuff other than desert climbing? It seems as though many of the desert routes have a chimney/offwidth section, but other rock types are not nearly so populated with the chim/OW. Also, have you found it to be useful on more than a handful of routes?
Peter
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psprings
Aug 4, 2006, 10:04 PM
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Vegas,
Hey, thanks for that feedback... very useful. The last thing I want to do is buy a full set and never use it. It does seem like a #4 would be a good piece to have, so I'll have to look into buying one I suppose (gear cleptos of the world unite!). I just got my second set of cams (metolius fats) from that mountain gear sale, so I can't buy a full set of BBs yet anyway :P
And thanks for the feedback on the #5; the older posts only talked about people who'd just gotten them (you and Brutus, I think) but hadn't used them a ton, so it's nice to hear how useful you find them so I don't blow too much of my own cash! Course, that's not to say that buying seldomly used gear is ever a mistake :D
Also, the rational about being in a chimney and being willing to run it out except for when it's a really long chimney is good to hear. That's the advice I'd been hearing from other desert climbers. Most of the chimney sections I've done have been relatively short and I've been either able to protect it some other way, or felt it was safe enough to run it out till the next placement. Anyway, it's good to hear what other people do and feel comfortable with.
PS
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sspssp
Aug 4, 2006, 10:13 PM
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Most people avoid learning how to climb wide cracks, which means routes with wide cracks tend not to be done as much. Hence, you don't hear about people climbing, or needing pro for wide cracks.
Which isn't to say nobody climbs wide stuff. You do find them in desert towers and many long Yosemite routes have a wide section somewhere (among others).
Large cams are generally more useful than B.B.s. Once you get above the largest cam, you tend to get to the squeeze size which many parties will just run out as opposed to carrying BBs and trying to protect it.
But if you need/want a big piece to be safe, then there isn't really much of an option.
I also found BBs to be useful when learning how to lead one pitch wide cracks.
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sspssp
Aug 4, 2006, 10:18 PM
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In reply to: Also, the rational about being in a chimney and being willing to run it out except for when it's a really long chimney is good to hear. That's the advice I'd been hearing from other desert climbers.
Right. But I would wager that most of those leaders have topropped/seconded a fair number of chimneys before they got on a tower and just ran it out (although I'm sure there are exceptions to that one also).
Leading some wide cracks at the Creek with large cams/BB is how you build up to running out wide tower pitches.
If you want to learn to lead wide cracks on your own (meaning you don't have a rope gun to put up topropes for you), some BBs would be worth picking up.
But most climbers just never learn to lead the wide stuff. But whether you want to be in that group or not is a different question.
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psprings
Aug 4, 2006, 10:59 PM
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SSPSSP (intriguing username?!),
Yeah, I've got the 5 and 6 Friends, and I do like having them; I'm glad I got them before looking at BBs. And you're right about getting practice on single pitch stuff first... strangely, most of my experience with chimneys has been ones where I've been able to find cracks inside on the faces of the chimneys, or in the back. All of my chimneys have been on desert towers so far, but I think you're right about hitting up the Creek; it'll be a good chance to work on some more sustained OW/Chimney routes, and learning to place a BB or 2. I've done several granite OWs, but they've protected with smaller gear in the back.
All that being said, I think Vegastradguy's idea of having a BB under you if you're doing a long, other-wise-unprotectable chimney section would help me climb with more confidence (even though those elbow-palm and knee-foot jams feel oh-so bomber), and, more importantly, safety. It's nice to know that assuming your piece holds, you won't deck!!!
You have any opinions on the most useful sizes of BBs? It sounds like the #4 is where you go beyond big cam ranges...
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iamthewallress
Aug 4, 2006, 10:59 PM
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I'm in the camp of folks who has big gear, but usually opts for climbs that are at a level where I'd rather just leave it at home. It's so heavy and gets in the way so much when I'm in the wide that I can actually feel sketchier with all of the cargo than I do just climbing the climb.
Of course, this method involves lots of TR practice and a gradual and conservative progression in what I'm willing to take on when leading.
Besides, even when I have big gear, I rarely have enough of it that I feel "well protected", so I still only want to be climbing stuff where I don't think I'd ever fall.
It seems to me that Knee chimneys usually aren't very hard. Squeeze chimneys can be hard to climb up, but also can be hard to fall out of. (Very flared things, roofs, etc excepted.) Bigger than knee chimneys, and you're often as likely to find a nut or small cam somewhere as you are a Bro.
Alot of times the crux on a squeeze chimney is the bit where it necks down and you need to maneuver into ow or some other size. You can usually protect said awful move with a big cam. Of course, the new crux becomes moving past said cam.
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