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pumpout
Aug 9, 2006, 9:09 PM
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Registered: Aug 23, 2005
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Having a debate with my climbing partner.
this rope apparently should only be used for snow walking, but if "doubled up" it can be used for climbing. Does doubled up mean, having two independent ropes that you tie into, or can you just fold it in half - and tie into a figure of 8 on a bight on one end, and two regular figure of 8 tie ins on the other end.
I intend to use it on short alpine cruxes, say 15m high, and clip both strands into same piece of gear.
I think that you need two independent strands when they say "doubled up", although if one strand breaks, on a figure 8 on a bight, the other should still hold? (partner argues yes, I have doubts) Ithink for twin ropes mean two completely independent ropes.
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robreglinski
Aug 9, 2006, 9:29 PM
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Registered: May 2, 2004
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i climb totally on double ropes (unless aiding)
Double rope systems is one rope per biner where gear placements are alternated or placed left and right of the climbing line. this is very safe and great way of using ropes
Twin ropes are where both ropes are connected into the same biner. you must not use certain biners for this task as if you fall and ropes run across each other you could damage the rope. this method is used in the Alps but is uncommon. it is IMO a very poor rope method compared to above
************************HOWEVER****************************
the rope you are using must be rated for these tasks and should be marked with a 1/2 symbol within a circle for the upper double rope method or a Infinity symbol for the lower rope method
if using the lower rope method AVOID light weight heavily shaped biners in favor of more classic or oval shaped units. the last time i saw the twin rope method used in the UK was a long time ago.
i now climb on double 8mm mammut serenity’s which are great these are two lines. if i tie into the middle i ether use a Fig Eight on a bight or a alpine butterfly depending on rope oreantation. no problems
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davidji
Aug 9, 2006, 9:46 PM
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Registered: Jan 30, 2003
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The Beal Rando is a twin, so use it that way (clip both strands together).
Doubling a rope generally means folding in half. If you have a 30m Rando, that's gonna be pretty short when you double it.
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greenketch
Aug 9, 2006, 11:57 PM
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Registered: Jan 12, 2005
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That Rando rope will work as you describe. It is rated as a half and when you tie a Fig.8 on a bight if one strand breaks the other strand will continue to be tied.
What you are describeing is a fairly standard alpine ice and snow system. Use the rope as a single when walking on snow for protection against snow bridge collapse. When you have to negotiate a small wall fold it in half tie in and climb. Bear in mind that it is really short-- 30m folded is 15m minus a knot at each end it is less than 14m minus a little for devices and such you are only going to get up a 12-13 meter wall. But for many the short rope is more than made up for by the weight savings
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dharmasoldat
Aug 19, 2006, 4:41 AM
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Registered: Oct 24, 2005
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I had posted a question in the alpine&ice forum about this kinda thing...
I had thought about just using a single strand of twin, halving it, and hooking it into an anchor, using dual figure-8 or figure-9 on-a-bight knots, with the non-load-tails of each being between the two knots.
I've gotten one positive remark on it so far.
I suppose the only benefit of this idea over the Rando 8mm is that you'd get more falls out of the rope, and if you used a skinny half, you could do a short double-rope system, though this might get confusing seeing as you're only using one color...
Just my two cents worth.
Cheers!
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davidji
Aug 19, 2006, 4:53 AM
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Registered: Jan 30, 2003
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In reply to: I suppose the only benefit of this idea over the Rando 8mm is that you'd get more falls out of the rope, and if you used a skinny half, you could do a short double-rope system, though this might get confusing seeing as you're only using one color...
When I use seperate half ropes I use double rope technique. When I double a half rope for simulclimbing I prefer to clip as twin. As you cover long (many pitch) distances on easy ground, maybe turning to look around etc., it's easy to get the ropes twisted and if if they twist together, better if they're clipped together.
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