|
uofaclimber
Aug 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
Post #1 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 3
|
Is it really that bad to top rope with a static rope? Personally when im top roping with dynamic and im even 10 feet off the ground ill sometimes come down and hit the ground from a fall. I dont see why it would be bad to TR with static if the belayer were doing his job?
|
|
|
|
|
climbinginchico
Aug 16, 2006, 12:02 AM
Post #2 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 3032
|
A 10 footer on TR? Your belayer isn't doing their job. A static rope would just hurt with all the slack they are leaving in the system.
|
|
|
|
|
tradalltheway
Aug 16, 2006, 12:53 AM
Post #3 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 133
|
If it's a 30m high top rope then a 10' fall that touches ground isn't terribly out of the question with a dynamic rope. You can use a static to eliminate this rope stretch, but remember to keep the rope tight. Any slack, ANY SLACK, will prove to be painful if not fatal.
|
|
|
|
|
gunkiemike
Aug 16, 2006, 1:37 AM
Post #4 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266
|
In reply to: Any slack, ANY SLACK, will prove to be painful if not fatal.
That a whole lotta exaggeration. Static rope stretches about 1/4 to 1/3 as much as dynamic rope in a TR situation. It ain't like you're falling on steel cable.
|
|
|
|
|
uofaclimber
Aug 16, 2006, 1:57 AM
Post #5 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 3
|
allright thanks for the quick replys. When my next check comes in I might possibly go to rei and get some of the cheaper 11mm static they have that comes off the spool.
|
|
|
|
|
ctardi
Aug 16, 2006, 6:05 AM
Post #7 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2004
Posts: 1278
|
You will be cursing that 11mm rope all day. If you have a dynamic rope already, then i'd just keep using that. (It sounds like you do).
|
|
|
|
|
sky7high
Aug 17, 2006, 1:49 AM
Post #8 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 15, 2006
Posts: 478
|
I'd say, only buy the static rope if you're going to do lots of abseiling or hauling. About the TR problem, I would only use a static TR if there were HIV infected spikes on the ground. Seriously, only ask your belayer to give you more tension; the "if I fall my back would break" isn't a very confortable feeling.
|
|
|
|
|
deltav
Aug 17, 2006, 2:30 AM
Post #9 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 597
|
11 mil is way to thick, try to shove it through an ATC in REI, you'll see
|
|
|
|
|
michael_c
Aug 17, 2006, 2:49 AM
Post #10 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 19, 2005
Posts: 29
|
We have 4 static ropes for top roping at our local crag for our club and we have found that 11mm is over kill get 10mm or less if you can. It will still last forver and it'll handle reasonbly well.
Also most static's I think have 3-4% strech, while most dynamics are around 8% so its not going to be a hard fall as some people are saying.
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Aug 17, 2006, 3:34 AM
Post #11 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28414
|
In reply to: Is it really that bad to top rope with a static rope? Personally when im top roping with dynamic and im even 10 feet off the ground ill sometimes come down and hit the ground from a fall. I dont see why it would be bad to TR with static if the belayer were doing his job?
No it's not bad. Though pretty unnecessary.(Edit:Using a static line for TR)
If you prestretch the rope right before climbing long routes with a low crux. You won't fall as far from the rope stretch when using a dynamic rope.
|
|
|
|
|
david_smithrock
Aug 17, 2006, 5:20 AM
Post #12 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 361
|
Using statics for toproping isn't necessary, and definitely not worth the risk of blowing stitches on your harness if your belayer isn't paying attention and gives you too much slack. For one of the new link ups at Smith, we needed an 80m rope to work the moves on TR, with hard moves off the deck. If you're worried about hitting the deck, pre-stretching works fine. Or just make sure your belayer knows the "jump-take" technique! It's better to save the statics for jugging and hauling.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Aug 17, 2006, 3:21 PM
Post #13 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: Using statics for top roping isn't necessary, and definitely not worth the risk of blowing stitches on your harness if your belayer isn't paying attention and gives you too much slack. For one of the new link ups at Smith, we needed an 80m rope to work the moves on TR, with hard moves off the deck. If you're worried about hitting the deck, pre-stretching works fine. Or just make sure your belayer knows the "jump-take" technique! It's better to save the statics for jugging and hauling.
What type of climbing are you doing. If you are just Tring and sport rappelling and you only are going to have one rope, I would go with a static rope and have a experienced and ATTENTATIVE belayer. If you are sport climbing also and you are looking at having only one rope, go with a dynamic rope. If you are taking people out that is new to belaying, I would go with a dynamic rope..... I have statics and dynamic ropes and I TR with static with my family ( I trust their belaying), but when I take the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts out I use Dynamic ropes for TRing.
|
|
|
|
|
sevrdhed
Aug 17, 2006, 4:03 PM
Post #14 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 5, 2004
Posts: 923
|
In reply to: Any slack, ANY SLACK, will prove to be painful if not fatal.
Before I say this, I'd just like to say that I personally wouldn't suggest buying a static rope for a TR set up, simply because I don't think it's necessary, and it's pretty limited in use. (Unless you're jugging or hauling like other people mentioned.
That said, where exactly are you getting this info from? Sure, I know falls on static lines can be bad, but do you really think that an inch of slack is going to kill him?
Just curious, because I've personally taken a fall while top roping, self belaying with a gri-gri, on a static line, and not only am I not dead, I'm not paralyzed, or severly injured, or even in fact mildly injured. And it wasn't a slip a half inch fall, it was a short 1 or 2 foot fall. It was a little jarring, to be sure, but potentially deadly? I just don't see it.
If I'm wrong, someone please point me to some proof that show that any slack in a static rope TR set up has a potential for death.
Thanks!
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
grayhghost
Aug 17, 2006, 4:41 PM
Post #15 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 444
|
I've taken an eight-foot lead fall on static line. Painfull? Yes. Deadly? You decide.
"blowing stitches on your harness" Not even close to the truth.
If 50% of your climbing is T.R. then I would recomend a static line. It will last 8-10 years and you will save wear-n-tear on your dynamic line.
|
|
|
|
|
grayhghost
Aug 17, 2006, 4:42 PM
Post #16 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 444
|
I've taken an eight-foot lead fall on static line. Painful? Yes. Deadly? You decide.
"blowing stitches on your harness" Not even close to the truth.
If 50% of your climbing is T.R. then I would recommend a static line. It will last 8-10 years and you will save wear-n-tear on your dynamic line.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Aug 17, 2006, 4:46 PM
Post #17 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: I've taken an eight-foot lead fall on static line. Painfull? Yes. Deadly? You decide. "blowing stitches on your harness" Not even close to the truth. If 50% of your climbing is T.R. then I would recomend a static line. It will last 8-10 years and you will save wear-n-tear on your dynamic line.
I would find myself another belayer!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
grayhghost
Aug 17, 2006, 4:51 PM
Post #18 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 21, 2002
Posts: 444
|
When your lead line gets the chop and you need to get over the top before dark, it's a simple choice, tag line.
|
|
|
|
|
david_smithrock
Aug 17, 2006, 6:34 PM
Post #19 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 361
|
If you must use a static rope, and trust your belayer, go for it. If not, stick to dynamic ropes, which are made for holding falls; that's all. And yes, I had a few stitches blow on a BD harness about five years ago when the gym belayer didn't take in enough slack when I did a dyno on toprope! Not sure what diameter, etc. they were using, but it can happen.
|
|
|
|
|
fmd
Aug 17, 2006, 6:52 PM
Post #20 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 656
|
In reply to: If you must use a static rope, and trust your belayer, go for it. If not, stick to dynamic ropes, which are made for holding falls; that's all. And yes, I had a few stitches blow on a BD harness about five years ago when the gym belayer didn't take in enough slack when I did a dyno on toprope! Not sure what diameter, etc. they were using, but it can happen.
David: What kind of harness was the black diamond and where did the stiches pull and how long was the fall???? Just curious. I have several BD bods that I use...
|
|
|
|
|
david_smithrock
Aug 17, 2006, 7:03 PM
Post #21 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 361
|
It was a Dyna harness, their light, sporty model. The fall was maybe three feet, kind of a lunge out to the side. It wasn't anything life-threatening, but you could hear a stitch or two pop. Checking the harness, I noticed broken stitching on the left side of the top tie-in loop. I had taken numerous lead falls on dynamic ropes with that harness, and that's the only time that happened, on a static. Who knows, maybe it was just it's time to give out? Either way, it made me think using statics wasn't a great idea, even for TR, and I told the gym employee the same.
|
|
|
|
|
phojar
Aug 17, 2006, 7:57 PM
Post #22 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2006
Posts: 64
|
A static line won't make your belayer better. I've belayed people on TR using really old dynamic ropes that didn't stretch anymore and it definitely yanked me around more than a dynamic line does and I would keep the rope pretty tight too. Though I was belaying someone who weighed a solid 50 pounds more than me and they would just plop down in there harness each time they stopped to hang.
|
|
|
|
|
coolklimber
Aug 20, 2006, 4:44 AM
Post #23 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2006
Posts: 299
|
I heard that static rope has a core with plastic in it, so if there is enough shock it will break. I don't know if that is right or not, ideas?
|
|
|
|
|
ctardi
Aug 20, 2006, 11:59 PM
Post #24 of 24
(3571 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2004
Posts: 1278
|
In reply to: It was a Dyna harness, their light, sporty model. The fall was maybe three feet, kind of a lunge out to the side. It wasn't anything life-threatening, but you could hear a stitch or two pop. Checking the harness, I noticed broken stitching on the left side of the top tie-in loop. I had taken numerous lead falls on dynamic ropes with that harness, and that's the only time that happened, on a static. Who knows, maybe it was just it's time to give out? Either way, it made me think using statics wasn't a great idea, even for TR, and I told the gym employee the same.
Is the dyna a discontinued harness? Could that be why?
|
|
|
|
|
|
