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pbjosh
Sep 5, 2002, 6:34 AM
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Heya,
So I'm going to take at least a stab at leading More Monkey this winter. I know it's been led though it's more frequently TR'd.
Anyways, back to the plan at hand. The guidebook says something to the tune of "can be led with 2 ropes." I'm not sure where this would get you unless they are suggesting clipping into the first one with a locker and tying into the second, then after clipping a piece or two at the lip with the second rope, untying from and dropping the first so that you can avoid drag from the pieces under the roof as you turn the lip?
It seems to me that since there isn't too much climbing (15' maybe) above the roof and the meat of the climb is turning the lip just doing it with one rope and sufficiently runnering your pieces under the roof should suffice. The hands under the roof are WAY BOMBER so I think I'll have no problem not sewing it up like crazy...
Anyone who's led it or seen it led or dealt with a similar situation have feedback? I've seen the videos of Ron Kauk leading Seperate Reality and Heaven and he doesn't seem to bother with multiple ropes (well after turning the lip Seperate Reality is like 2nd class, not sure what Heaven looks like over the lip).
Thanks...
josh
[ This Message was edited by: cass on 2002-09-05 04:55 ]
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rrrADAM
Sep 6, 2002, 7:29 AM
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Seen it... Tried it on TR... You have big stones if you're going to lead it.
Let me know when, as I'll give you a belay, and lots of encouagement.
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murf
Sep 9, 2002, 6:05 PM
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pb -
Got a list of classics don't you? I've lead it once and had the two rope situation going. Trying to unlock a locking biner while hanging upside down isn't the most fun I've ever had. Basically it pretty much screwed any chance of the onsite, and just confused things a little too much. Next time a single rope is ticket for me.
As you have said, the meat of the matter is getting the feet to the lip of the roof. Not over at that point, but you're most of the way there. Sort of a "one trick pony" of a route IMHO, but its fun to kick out onto the jams on lead.
Cheers,
Murf
[ This Message was edited by: murf on 2002-09-09 11:05 ]
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fitz
Sep 9, 2002, 10:14 PM
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pbjosh,
I think that the book is recommending that you alternate clips (left side, right side, etc) between ropes. Zig zag is a big part of drag, so cutting out even a little back and forth can really cut down on total drag. Drag is also a bit exponential, so having each rope clipped into fewer pieces may mean less total drag still.
The hardest part of the technique is learning how to belay two lines somewhat independantly in one device.
Either way, good luck!
-jjf
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sizzlechest
Sep 9, 2002, 10:28 PM
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i've done it a few years ago, just drop the first rope after a while, it worked great, the big problem is the friction of the j-tree grains at the lip it just always makes for bad rope drag, have fun it's classic, send equinox as well, it's by far the best crack in the place !!!
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pbjosh
Sep 9, 2002, 10:34 PM
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I think I'll just stick with the single rope, thanks for the feedback...
fitz - I don't think that alternate clipping would get you anywhere except confused and pumped - more monkey than funky is a 15' roof crack to a 90' corner to a vertical top out, so the rope drag is the 90 degree bend as you're trying to haul yourself above the lip which is where the fierce moves are.
sizzlechest - I think Equinox might be a little out of my league right now but some day
josh
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fitz
Sep 9, 2002, 11:08 PM
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pbjosh, I just took a look at the route, I think you are right. Long runners before and under the roof would cut a lot of drag.
I could see how someone might drag a line, clip in after the roof, then drop a line, but it seems like a lot of work. Do be careful about swinging back into the wall from the roof. I've actually had that happen a couple of times (on one route). I put in long runners to soften the roof turn, then lost a hand jam setting the second (and later) third roof piece. Both times I ended up hitting the wall upside down.
Also, FWIW, you might consider putting the roof pieces on your harness instead of a gear sling. I normally prefer a sling, but I could never master plucking gear off one while it is all being pulled by gravity behind me.
Again, good luck (I'm with RRRAdam, I'd be happy to drive out just to see you take a stab at it).
-jjf
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rrrADAM
Sep 9, 2002, 11:19 PM
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Runners won't help... The rope still makes a 90 going over the sharp lip. That's where the drag comes from.
If you wanted to get creative... You could run a long piece of webbing and biner from the tree/bush at the base to act as a directional to keep the rope from contacting the lip. You would have to clip this to the rope before you started to climb, and make sure that all pieces are clipped after that piece before turning the roof. It's not a weight bearing point, just a directional, and the tree/bush is at just the right spot. About 15-20 feet would work, adjust to keep the rope about 6"-12" from the lip.
Get the picture I'm trying to describe ???
And I'm serious about giving you a belay... I wanna watch.
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paulc
Sep 9, 2002, 11:25 PM
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I don't see how runners don't help. They lessen then angle between the two vertical section. Sure you still get rope drag on the edge of the roof, but at least you don't have two 90 degree turns in your rope to deal with at the same time. You would end up with somewhat more than 90 depending on how you setup your runners. Just watch the extra distance you get if you peel.
Are you going to lead ground up or pinkpoint?
Paul
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rrrADAM
Sep 9, 2002, 11:29 PM
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The line does not meander much, it goes straight out the roof, and turns a 90 degree lip to gain the face above. You could probably just use biners to gear and get the same amount of drag. The drag comes from the rope making the 90, horizontal to vertical, and the friction that creates.
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pbjosh
Sep 9, 2002, 11:37 PM
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Adam - I think I'll probably take a crack at it sometime in October. Headed to Yosemite for a while and I should come back buff and ready (or with my tail between my legs, we'll see) If you want to hook up let me know, I'll get ahold of you when I get back. I really don't think it'll be _that_ bad to lead and set gear under the roof but I think I want to TR reherse the moves around the lip first as they are hard as hell!
josh
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rrrADAM
Sep 9, 2002, 11:41 PM
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I'll be in NY on a job, and climbing The Gunks , till mid November.
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mreardon
Sep 10, 2002, 12:39 AM
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Go single rope. Yes there's drag, but my partner went with two ropes and got bulloxed on the route. I did it a few weeks later on one rope and sent it with minimal headache. I also used a couple runners at the beginning to help the drag.
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murf
Sep 10, 2002, 12:41 AM
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The main issue with drag is not the turn going over the roof. That can be dealt with runners. The main problem is that you have to 3rd class up the slab to the start of the roof. Your belayer is out past the lip of the roof ( directionally speaking ). My solution was to put in a solid piece, commit to it, then put in another solid piece before getting too far past the first and then pulling the first piece, it seemed to help.
I wouldn't TR it first, do it in good style! The gear is solid and the initial commit to the roof off the slab was mentally the hardest point. Once you're on the jams, you just have to keep going!
Murf
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josher
Sep 10, 2002, 12:46 AM
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The old guide (1975) suggests leading with 2 ropes , only lead with just one of them, then when you get over the over-hang, clip the second and abandon the first. GL
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pbjosh
Sep 10, 2002, 6:07 AM
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I've actually been on it once - I ran into some friends at the Barker Dam parking area who had a TR set up on it so I took a free ride. The jams under the roof are super sinker so I'm not worried about that... it's the lip that I flailed on.
josh
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tigerbythetail
Sep 10, 2002, 7:07 AM
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There are two good ways to do this...
1) Carry two ropes, drop on at the lip and continue upwards with one rope.
2) If comfortable use minimal pro under the roof and one rope (slings under the roof help).
Lastly, FYI the crux is not the lip but a little higher up at a thin lieback section.
Good Luck
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pbjosh
Sep 10, 2002, 2:49 PM
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Heya Chris,
When I was on it I got a little stumped by the lieback action above the lip - I was pumped and pooped and it was end of the day and it looked hopeless. But after hanging out a while and futzing around I found a really high step that was a bit awkward but not very hard, made the part above the lip feel like soft to moderate 10 maybe, as I recall... the crux for me was definitely the tight hands around the lip and getting the feet over and around.
josh
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tigerbythetail
Sep 11, 2002, 12:01 AM
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Cool- just goes to show how one piece of rock can usually be climbed in a variety of ways- some easier, some harder.
Keep in mind that you had the luxury of a TR to find that inobvious high-step, something you might have missed on an onsight attempt of the route.
Good luck on the route- if in Josh you may try Rice Cake Roof as it's a similar roof crack problem.
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