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dan2see
Oct 24, 2006, 7:34 PM
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In my area of the Rocky Mountains, a lot of the trad routes are bolted at the belay stations. You will find different configurations.
I built my "Practice Belay Wall" to practice the handling the rope, slings, and biners, and the whole procedure.
On my practice wall, the pink-and-yellow slings (retired from a previous life) simulate bolts. I can girth them anywhere on the 2x4's.
In the picture, I have led up to this belay station. I have anchored to a pair of simulated bolts, one above the other. This configuration is used on "Twilight Zone" on "Kid Goat Mountain". I'm tied in with a sliding-X. The sliding-X is great on bolts, but I would prefer a cordalette on a gear-only belay. I am belaying "Teddy", my second, who is almost at the station. He will swing through and lead to the next belay. Then I must escape and follow.
With this set-up, I can try out different combinations to see how they work, or how they don't work. I can try out ideas that are kinda goofy, or plain dangerous -- but mostly it feels good to do it right. The real anchors are never text-book tidy, so when I do get up there, I am ready for anything.
This Practice Belay Wall works great with simulated bolts, but not for gear. Those girth-hitched slings are bomber, they cannot fail, you don't ever have to think about their safety.
(This post was edited by dan2see on Dec 24, 2006, 6:18 AM)
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dan2see
Oct 24, 2006, 7:35 PM
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In my area of the Rocky Mountains, a lot of the crags are bolted for top-rope. When I reach to top of any route, I'll find a pair of bolts with hangers, sometimes with chains, or rings.
I built my "Practice Anchor Wall" to practice the handling the rope, slings, and biners, and the whole procedure.
On my practice wall, the pink-and-yellow slings (retired from a previous life) simulate bolts. I can girth them anywhere on the 2x4's.
When I lead to the top anchor, I clip a pair of slings to the bolts, and clip the rope onto that. That is, I do not thread the rings, I clip onto them. Later, when every-one has done this route, the last climber must clean the anchor. He'll re-thread the rope through the rings, remove the slings, and get lowered down. I can then pull down my rope.
In the picture, I am cleaning the anchor by re-threading my rope through the rings, and then I can remove the slings and untie my 8. My belayer, "Teddy", is waiting patiently to lower me off the anchor.
With this set-up, I can try out different combinations to see how they work. I can try out ideas that are kinda goofy, or plain dangerous -- but mostly it feels good to do it right. The real anchors on the real crags are never text-book tidy, so when I do get up there, I am ready for anything.
(This post was edited by dan2see on Dec 24, 2006, 6:20 AM)
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krusher4
Oct 24, 2006, 8:13 PM
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seems a little silly but I bet this would help a lot of new climbers.
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granite_grrl
Oct 24, 2006, 8:54 PM
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I saw this nifty little board up at the ACC hut at Bon Echo. It had hunks of wood on it so you could place nuts, cams, trams, etc. There was a person practice anchors before their first lead under the watchful eye of a more experienced leader. It was nice because you could make multidirectional anchors, compensate for upwards pull and all that stuff.
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devils_advocate
Oct 24, 2006, 8:59 PM
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Is the electrical wire there to simulate all those power-equipped belay stations? You guys in the Rockies have all the luxuries. I sense a fib there Dan. Fess up, you didn't build that sporty looking practice wall for anchors, it's part of a normal wall, sans drywall. :lol:
I could see if you made it with a bunch of channels of varying thickness and tapers so you could practice placing gear at different locations, distances, orientations, etc. Oppose nuts, and work on different ways to rig it all together in a powerpoint... but how many times do you need to practice clipping into bolts? Then again, you could just go outside and practice.
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dan2see
Oct 25, 2006, 1:01 AM
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In reply to: Is the electrical wire there to simulate all those power-equipped belay stations? You guys in the Rockies have all the luxuries. I sense a fib there Dan. Fess up, you didn't build that sporty looking practice wall for anchors, it's part of a normal wall, sans drywall. :lol:
Those filaments that look like wires are actually tree roots. The 60W sun is just above, to the left. You might think you see a chair behind me, but that's actually a boulder chockstone, above the belay ledge. It's hard to make out, but what looks like a radio behind the studs is birds, singing. Finally, that's not a blue drop-sheet behind me, that's actually sky, and wind.
Uhh.. the studs are the wood things, not me.
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dan2see
Oct 25, 2006, 1:14 AM
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In reply to: I saw this nifty little board up at the ACC hut at Bon Echo. It had hunks of wood on it so you could place nuts, cams, trams, etc. There was a person practice anchors before their first lead under the watchful eye of a more experienced leader. It was nice because you could make multidirectional anchors, compensate for upwards pull and all that stuff.
Wow! g_grrl, thanks for the tip! That sounds like a great winter project. When the spring season begins, I want very much to lead something (anything!) on trad multi-pitch -- boy! will I be ready!
I once climbed on Bon Echo: "Top Secret Straight Up". On the third pitch, we got blasted with a sudden summer thunder-storm. When lightning hit the cliff (a little ways down) I learned that I could climb faster. Actually I was crawling up this granite ramp, so I learned that I could crawl faster.
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granite_grrl
Oct 25, 2006, 3:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I saw this nifty little board up at the ACC hut at Bon Echo. It had hunks of wood on it so you could place nuts, cams, trams, etc. There was a person practice anchors before their first lead under the watchful eye of a more experienced leader. It was nice because you could make multidirectional anchors, compensate for upwards pull and all that stuff. Wow! g_grrl, thanks for the tip! That sounds like a great winter project. When the spring season begins, I want very much to lead something (anything!) on trad multi-pitch -- boy! will I be ready! I once climbed on Bon Echo: "Top Secret Straight Up". On the third pitch, we got blasted with a sudden summer thunder-storm. When lightning hit the cliff (a little ways down) I learned that I could climb faster. Actually I was crawling up this granite ramp, so I learned that I could crawl faster.
Yeah, wish I had a photo to share with you. I didn't know what it was the first time I saw it...though it was some sort of modern art! Maybe you could contact the Toronto ACC section and see if they could give you any photos.
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bill413
Oct 25, 2006, 3:30 PM
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I notice that Teddy is pretty hard core - no chalk & only a swami for a harness. What sort of shoes are those that he's wearing?
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dan2see
Oct 25, 2006, 3:41 PM
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In reply to: I notice that Teddy is pretty hard core - no chalk & only a swami for a harness. What sort of shoes are those that he's wearing? |
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dan2see
Oct 26, 2006, 1:57 AM
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In reply to: ... but how many times do you need to practice clipping into bolts?
For example, the first time I cleaned an anchor, I remembered to clip myself in, but I forgot to clip the rope in.
For example, when I was planning to do my first trad climb, I read in RC.com about the problems with sliding-X, and some types of gear. I needed to try it myself. I needed to try out the "extension" and "redundancy" and also piling biners on top of biners. Then I was ready to play with gear in real life.
In reply to: ...Then again, you could just go outside and practice. |
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norushnomore
Oct 26, 2006, 8:18 AM
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Dan, anchors is so 2005, the new trend is rappelling. You got to start practicing that instead.
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bill413
Oct 26, 2006, 12:16 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I notice that Teddy is pretty hard core - no chalk & only a swami for a harness. What sort of shoes are those that he's wearing? Bear feet. |
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bill413
Oct 31, 2006, 2:55 PM
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In reply to: The 60W sun is just above, to the left.
In reply to: Uhh.. the studs are the wood things, not me. |
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dan2see
Oct 31, 2006, 4:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The 60W sun is just above, to the left. I know Canada is pretty far north...but, man, doesn't it get cold?
Alpine climbing is called "mixed" climbing because you climb on snow and ice as well as rock. I can't do that because I don't own the clothes nor the gear. My Anchors Practice Wall doesn't do snow and ice. Hmm... That might be a neat project for next winter. :D
But we're not desperate for fun in the mountains! I also hike with the Calgary Outdoor Club. Last Sunday's hike was so pretty, walking under the snow-laden trees and walking in the fresh powder. We stopped for lunch under the shelter of some fir trees and told food jokes and ice jokes, and compared who had the iciest bottom. At one point everybody stopped chitter-chattering and just walked, so our leader stopped to check if we were really alright? I kept finding these big tracks in the snow, and I guessed they were elk or caribou, but the other guys said they were rabbits. Next week we're hiking the pass between Mt.Baldy (not Old Baldy) and Boundary Ridge.
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dynoho
Nov 15, 2006, 4:58 PM
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You mentioned that you might be building an enhanced wall that would allow you to place pro. Here is a shot of the wall at my gym. I hope it gives you some ideas.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/6/285006-largest_80382.jpg
Sorry, I don't know how to get the inline photos to work yet.
(This post was edited by dynoho on Nov 15, 2006, 5:03 PM)
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dan2see
Nov 16, 2006, 11:05 PM
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OK Jeff, I got the picture OK, even though it does not appear on the forum. It looks really professionally put-together, and I can certainly add this to my own anchor wall. I can see it has a slot for hexcentrics as well as vertical cracks.
But I have a question or two, if you know the answer?
Are the 2x4's screwed onto the plywood from the back? And do they wiggle in use or are they real solid?
When you place any pro into those grooves, are they supposed to hold any weight? The idea here is, you can try out equalization and extension if you can weight the anchor you build. I don't mean that I want to climb on the thing, just check out the action.
I already have the wood for this, except the plywood. All the nuts and bolts should come to around $10.00.
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dynoho
Nov 16, 2006, 11:30 PM
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All of them good questions. I haven't actually seen the instructors using the wall, nor have I closely examined the construction. If you are interested, I will gladly get more information as to how it is used and how it is built.
IMO, two 16 penny nails per end of each 2x4 should be sufficient. I know that screws can be brittle. There may be some flex, but I think pro will hold. Regardless, the ramifications of decking would be minimal.
If you can wait until next week, I should be able to supply some more useful info.
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dan2see
Nov 16, 2006, 11:52 PM
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Great. I'll wait. 
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dynoho
Nov 20, 2006, 3:06 AM
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Hey Dan,
I just got back and have the scoop on the wall construction.
The outside 2x4s are mounted to a 3/8th sheet of ply. The fasteners used were the type of screws used for hanging cabinets which have a higher shear strength. I would recommend pre-drilling holes as well.
The builder used one screw per end of each 2x4, PLUS an unknown number from the back, as you had thought. The whole unit was then mounted to the to the wall with 6 lag bolts and washers (5 visible in the shot).
There is no flex in the "cracks" at all; it is solid. For the seminars, the pro takes body weight and gets bounce tested.
Please, submit a picture of your creation if you decide to pursue this. Good luck.
Edited to add: It's kind of hard to tell, so I will describe what he has. There are vertical, horizontal and diagonal cracks which are parallel, constricting, expanding and flaring. There are three different "chickenheads" and a "tunnel" (girthhitched on the right). Finally, three bolted hangers.
-Jeff
(This post was edited by dynoho on Nov 20, 2006, 3:25 AM)
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dan2see
Nov 28, 2006, 4:52 PM
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Jeff, just letting you know that I've saved your info on the "pro-practice-wall" and it's taped to my office wall, between the dragon pix and my photo of Goat Ridge (not Old Goat Mountain!).
My architecture tends to be "organic" (that means, it just grows when it wants to, or when I find the right materials).
The weather outside now is snow and -30 C (in F that's "c-c-cold") so there's no hurry to practice pro placements with extensions for awhile.
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dan2see
Nov 28, 2006, 5:32 PM
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A couple of times I've read postings where the climber leads to the top of his TR, and "rapells" down. To keep it safe, he uses a Prussic, and I think "Huh?"
This summer, I met another climber at the top of Grotto Slabs, he showed my his Prussic and I said "Huh?".
So I try this on my Practice Wall. I tie in, lead to the TR anchor, thread the rope, and convert to rappel. It actually works, I can rapell using an 8 or an ATC.
Then I added a Prussic, from my harness to the tail, and voila! No hands! Perfect control.
Next is to try different cords for the Prussik, see how much difference it makes, or does not make.
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percious
Nov 28, 2006, 6:56 PM
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Instead of a prussik, consider using an autoblock. It's much simpler to tie, which makes faster transitions on multi-pitch repels. Also, it's less likely to be tied incorrectly, or get twisted while descending.
-percious
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ryanb
Nov 28, 2006, 7:29 PM
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I think you are fine without the back up knot since it looks like your bear foot partner and you both back up each others belay/rappels which should be twice as safe right?
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dan2see
Nov 28, 2006, 9:26 PM
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ryanb wrote: ...it looks like your bear foot partner and you both back up each others belay/rappels which should be twice as safe right?
ryanb wrote: I think you are fine without the back up knot
Although my bear might have his own opinion -- he's smarter than he looks!
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