Just saw were a climbing area on private land, has been closed to the general public. One of the reasons was all the dog sh*t. I don't want dogs or dog sh*t at my crag. Why can't people leave their dog at home? What do you think?
I'd rather have dogs and their shit than people and their shit. People get in the way and their shit is nastier. Also, when they misbehave, dogs are easier to tie up than people. Of course, dogs can't buy beer. Still, they are more loyal and don't lie, cheat, or steal. So even though they can't buy beer, dogz rule!
Now shut up and stay home. You're soiling my crag with your presence!
I'd have to agree... its not a problem of dogs. Its usually people... either with dogs or without. As for the dogs... at least in the US people usually know to clean up after you dog in public places... Its the owners responsibility. Also, I have never seen a dog sh*t right at the base of a climb... and everyone I know with dogs, including myself, would not let their dog sh*t on the trail for everyone to step in. People who care about etiquette are concious of others... dogs or not. People leave more crap lying around then you see dog sh*t lying around.
That thread about the crag at the Red in kentucky (I assume that what you were referring to) stated 'people' did not obey the no dog sign... 'people' let their dogs sh*t on the lawn of the bed and breakfast. A 'girl' was pissing on their lawn when a port'a'potty was right down the hill. I dont see how it was closed because of dogs. People need to stop blaming and take some responsibility.
I'd rather have dogs and their shit than people and their shit. People get in the way and their shit is nastier. Also, when they misbehave, dogs are easier to tie up than people. Of course, dogs can't buy beer. Still, they are more loyal and don't lie, cheat, or steal. So even though they can't buy beer, dogz rule!
Now shut up and stay home. You're soiling my crag with your presence!
Some dogs steal. And the smarter they are, the more they cheat. And when they cheat successfully, they always have that, "I didn't do anything" look, which could be considered a form of canine dishonesty.
I guess a million and one threads about dogs at the crag wouldn't hurt. As with most things, It Depends (tm). Some crags are more dog-friendly than others. Personally, I'm not the sort that would ever bring my dog to a multipitch destination so she could watch my pack all day. It also depends on the dog. Not all dogs have the right disposition to spend a day at the crag. Some aren't friendly enough, and some are too friendly. In the end, I think it's a question about owners rather than their animals. That's especially the case when dealing with shit.
Back in the day, I took my dog Jill climbing all the time. We were usually in small groups, so there was always someone to keep an eye on her. She's friendly and generally well behaved, and we had no problem leashing her. My other dog Tuey is more wary or strangers. He requires too much attention at the crag. He came out for a day trip or two, and we decided he'd be better off at home.
As far a dog shit, that demonstrates a lack of respect on the part of the owner. It's one thing if a dog goes in the woods out of the way. It's something else if it's hard to walk from one route to the next. That's foul, and I'd have a word with the owner about it. It's the same problem with people littering or otherwise trashing the crag.
WOW! Finally, an original topic around here. It's about time something is discussed that has never been brought up before. Such controversy, such intrigue. I can't wait to see where this thread will go!
What a wonderfully, original topic...dogs at crags!
Sometimes I take my dogs to the crag, sometimes I don't. They are both very friendly, but I don't take them when there are 2 or less people climbing. I always want someone on the ground with them. I have never thought about their shit though. I guess it could be bad at a very popular place, and could even discourage access. If there are signs to pick up after your dog, then you should. But most of the crags around me are in the woods and far from other people. Fortunately, my dogs go far from the crag or camp sites to poo.
I agree. Dogs are fun and they don't leave ciagrette butts lying around either. I ran into a couple a couple months ago with a dog named Sharma. The story was the dog was picked up as a stray on the way to the crag and a woman told the couple she had seen the dog climb fences around the gas station where he was found. As others have said I would much rather have a dog rather than a human leaving trash.
im ok with dogs at the crag if they aren't yappy. dog bark = head-ache.
-percious
Until fairly recently, I used to be pretty OK with dogs at the crag. Obviously, you don't want a yappy dog around. But I guess its not much worse than yappy people.
Now, I personally believe that dogs should be tied down so they can't get near people's stuff.
Here's the story: My and my partner were climbing at Rumney, and there were a couple other climbers there with a dog. It was perfectly well behaved for a few hours. It made no noise, did not mess with out pack, and was kinda cute really.
Then suddenly, it just sallied up to my partners rope (on a rope tarp, while he was belaying me) and PISSED all over it. Now, many of you know that the acid in urine is one of the most damaging substances to nylon ropes. I think the dog owner was too noob to realize the damage that was done. He was quite apologetic, but did not even offer to buy us a beer, much less a new rope.
The rope was double dry (dry sheath, and dry core), and we rinsed it off right away at the crag w. water as best we could. Then later, we gave it to a friend of ours who washed the rope in his front-loading washing machine. So MAYBE the rope was OK. Its a moot point really. The rope was actually stolen by someone from the climbing gym just a couple weeks later. So some asshole out there is climbing on a stolen acid-damaged rope. Karmic retribution, I suppose.
The moral of the story, even if you think your dog is well behaved, does not mean that it will be so 100% of the time. And 10 seconds of bad behavior on the part of your pet can do irreparable damage to someone else's gear. So if you bring your dog to the crag, I plead you to at least tie it down. And if it damages something, you need to replace it.
And another thing, if the rules of the area say NO DOGS, then you need to obey that. Just for the record, Rumney is on National Forest land, so that means NO DOGS. For some reason, people think its ok, just b/c its a "climbing crag".
Then suddenly, [the dog] just sallied up to my partners rope (on a rope tarp, while he was belaying me) and PISSED all over it. Now, many of you know that the acid in urine is one of the most damaging substances to nylon ropes. I think the dog owner was too noob to realize the damage that was done. He was quite apologetic, but did not even offer to buy us a beer, much less a new rope.
The rope was double dry (dry sheath, and dry core), and we rinsed it off right away at the crag w. water as best we could. Then later, we gave it to a friend of ours who washed the rope in his front-loading washing machine. So MAYBE the rope was OK.
Check for Pitt Schubert's report on Tradgirl. One item:
3. Ropes soaked overnight in urine had their strength reduced by 30%. However, this was only relevant when the rope was loaded over a sharp edge.
If we're talking about piss quickly washed off a dry rope, then properly washed shortly thereafter, I would be willing to climb on it. I would have been mad as hell, too, but I wouldn't expect someone to pony up $150. As someone else said, there should at least be one person on the ground to keep the dog out of trouble (and out of the way of belayers). A better policy is to clip the dog in a location that doesn't interfere with other climbers or people on the trail.
(This post was edited by markc on Dec 5, 2006, 5:35 PM)
Check for Pitt Schubert's report on Tradgirl. One item:
3. Ropes soaked overnight in urine had their strength reduced by 30%. However, this was only relevant when the rope was loaded over a sharp edge.
If we're talking about piss quickly washed off a dry rope, then properly washed shortly thereafter, I would be willing to climb on it. I would have been mad as hell, too, but I wouldn't expect someone to pony up $150.
I agree, I wouldn't have expected the guys to buy a new rope. But I made a similar post on a local climbing website, NEClimbs, and several replies very vehemently said the guy should have bought my partner a new rope. I was expecting a 12 pack of beer, at least! In any case, if I were in the same position, I might actually buy the person a new rope. I don't want to have that guys safety on my conscience.
In any case, a 30% reduction is significant, and sharp edges happen. Sure, those test results were for the overnight soaking. And I agree that the rope was PROBABLY fine. But I don't like dealing with "probably fine" in climbing. In any case, like I said, the rope was stolen so I can care less. If the rope fails, thats the thiefs problem.
The case of the rope breaking a few months ago in a California gym was an eye-opener for a lot of climbers. The rope owner claims that the rope was never exposed to any chemicals, but the independent test results clearly indicated that acid damage was the cause of the rope failure. My guess it was likely some chemical, like battery acid, as opposed to urine. But who knows? That case has made me even more careful about exposing my rope to any acids, including urine.
(This post was edited by redpoint73 on Dec 5, 2006, 5:58 PM)
I think that every crag should designate a certain area for dogs and a certain area for climbers who complain about everything. That way the people that came to climb and have fun don't have to be annoyed by either of the two
I say you hold that damn mongrel down and shit right on its pointy little forehead. that'll show that insubordinate pooch who the alpha is. pisses on your rope? pee on its collar. bites you on the wang? well, you get the picture...
(This post was edited by zeke_sf on Dec 7, 2006, 7:23 PM)
i dont think its a problem if their there as long as they dont do anything dumb...whoever is the owner needs to keep it close to them or tied up close by
so once again the concenus in this thread, like many dog threads in the past is shoot the owner, not the dog?
sucks that it is illeagle to shoot dog owners, guess i'll just stick to kicking dumbass dogs in front of their asshole owners. I know ther're a few good dogs/doghandlers out there but unfortunently your vastly outnumbered.
I used to be kind of ambivalent, even tolerating my partner who brings his dog everywhere. Can't blame him, he's moved around so much that climbing and that dog are the only consistent feature in his life. Anyway, we're out at Reynold's Hill, at Vedauwoo, one day and we encounter another party that has 3 jack russell terriers with them. So while we're gearing up, we kind of watch the way my partner's dog and them interact. After two abortive dog fights and my partner's dog trying to eat one of the other party's lunch, we tied his dog down, solid. Like big wall anchor solid. That dog wasn't going anywhere. So what do two of these fuckin' rat dogs do in response? They waltze over and start tormenting my partner's dog. I pulled one off and nearly threw the other back over, started pulling out slings to tie them down and help the other party secure them. I could not be more embarassed, and angry, over the whole situation. I'd already offered up my lunch to cover what had been eaten when the unrestrained terriers tried to start another fight.
So, if any of you was that party that day, remember that I, as an avowed dog lover, could have killed you and your stupid little wishbone look-a-likes after the garbage we went through. And the two interrupted dog fights should've been the warning to secure your pooches, not the third one when your dogs attacked my partner's tied up dog and I sent one of yours sailing.
Oh, god I hate dogs at the crag. I don't care how well tempered you think that thing is, put them around the right person or the right dog, and that thing will be a little shit. It is better for the dog that you take them out exercising when you can give them all of your attention, not just tie the thing up at the base to whimper while it waits for you to return.
Come on Woff, Shi* all over this land, it is your right and there is nothing these climbers can do to stop you from having a good time unless one of those AS&hole is a head of some environmental group who may think your sh*t is having some impact on near by flowers or whatever.
Just saw were a climbing area on private land, has been closed to the general public. One of the reasons was all the dog sh*t. I don't want dogs or dog sh*t at my crag. Why can't people leave their dog at home? What do you think?
Sorry to hear of the closure, but if you leave them at home then they're crapping in the house duh.
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In any case, if I were in the same position, I might actually buy the person a new rope. I don't want to have that guys safety on my conscience. 
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