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eric_k
Aug 17, 2006, 7:17 AM
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I was wondering when you would want to use twin or double ropes over single.
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tradclimbinfool
Aug 17, 2006, 10:54 AM
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Anytime I'm not toproping or sport climbing! Love my 8.1's!!!!
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antthedrummer
Aug 17, 2006, 11:18 AM
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Double Ropes:
Often used in Trad climbing - greatly reduces rope drag on wandering routes: where a single rope would zig-zag between pro causing a great deal of friction and thus rope drag, double ropes can be clipped alternately thus avoiding the zig-zag. Other benefit include extra safety if a sharp-edge fall is possible, longer rappel by joining them together etc....
Double Ropes:
http://www.abc-of-rockclimbing.com/...es/article-157-3.jpg
Twin ropes are used like a single (both must be clipped into each piece of pro) and are rarely used unless a longer rappel is needed or there is a fear of sharp edge falls.
Ant
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svilnit
Aug 17, 2006, 1:33 PM
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Great response and diagram Ant. You get the last trophy of the day!
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davidji
Aug 17, 2006, 4:41 PM
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In reply to: I was wondering when you would want to use twin or double ropes over single. |
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emoseman
Jan 11, 2007, 8:11 PM
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[quote "davidji"][quote]I was wondering when you would want to use twin or double ropes over single.[/quote]
They're better most times you want a second cord for raps. Much much better than carrying two singles. Sometimes a single & a thin rap cord is OK too.[/quote]
I think it is safe, but I am still interested in a discussion about it. Is it save to rappel on a single 8.1MM dynamic rope, one rope of a twin set? I recently picked up 8.1MM Ice Floss from Bluewater, and I e-mailed them about my concern and they wouldn't tell me "Yes please rappel on our ropes." And they refused to give me the UIAA fall / strength rating for a single rope from a twin set.
And I have heard about people rappelling on 7MM cordelette, but that is static so the strength ratings are different than that of dynamic if I'm not mistaken.
How do you all feel about this?
--
Evan
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cracklover
Jan 11, 2007, 8:35 PM
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emoseman wrote: davidji wrote: In reply to: I was wondering when you would want to use twin or double ropes over single. They're better most times you want a second cord for raps. Much much better than carrying two singles. Sometimes a single & a thin rap cord is OK too. I think it is safe, but I am still interested in a discussion about it. Is it save to rappel on a single 8.1MM dynamic rope, one rope of a twin set? I recently picked up 8.1MM Ice Floss from Bluewater, and I e-mailed them about my concern and they wouldn't tell me "Yes please rappel on our ropes." And they refused to give me the UIAA fall / strength rating for a single rope from a twin set. And I have heard about people rappelling on 7MM cordelette, but that is static so the strength ratings are different than that of dynamic if I'm not mistaken. How do you all feel about this? -- Evan
(I fixed your quotes for you).
Why would you want to rappel on a single 8.1 line?
Sure it's plenty strong enough, though of course it'll abrade faster than a thicker rope.
The real issue though, is what *else* are you doing with it. I mean, if you're rapping down off something, does that mean you led up it with just the single 8.1? That seems rather unwise!
GO
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emoseman
Jan 11, 2007, 8:46 PM
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cracklover wrote: emoseman wrote: davidji wrote: In reply to: I was wondering when you would want to use twin or double ropes over single. They're better most times you want a second cord for raps. Much much better than carrying two singles. Sometimes a single & a thin rap cord is OK too. I think it is safe, but I am still interested in a discussion about it. Is it save to rappel on a single 8.1MM dynamic rope, one rope of a twin set? I recently picked up 8.1MM Ice Floss from Bluewater, and I e-mailed them about my concern and they wouldn't tell me "Yes please rappel on our ropes." And they refused to give me the UIAA fall / strength rating for a single rope from a twin set. And I have heard about people rappelling on 7MM cordelette, but that is static so the strength ratings are different than that of dynamic if I'm not mistaken. How do you all feel about this? -- Evan (I fixed your quotes for you). Why would you want to rappel on a single 8.1 line? Sure it's plenty strong enough, though of course it'll abrade faster than a thicker rope. The real issue though, is what *else* are you doing with it. I mean, if you're rapping down off something, does that mean you led up it with just the single 8.1? That seems rather unwise! GO
No, I would lead with both ropes as they are intended to be used. But, if the rappel route down was less than half a rope length, or there wasn't a straight shot all the way down, I would only be rappelling using a single rope.
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Evan
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bigfatrock
Jan 11, 2007, 10:50 PM
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One thing not mentioned is they are good when there is high potential of botching a clip on protection that could lead to a big fall. You feed one rope at a time for the clip, that way if you fall while clipping you have the second rope with less slack in it to reduce the distance of the fall. (this is not a beginner question)
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angry
Jan 12, 2007, 12:16 AM
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uhh, rappelling 100 feet on an 8.1 or 200 feet on 2 8.1's tied together is exactly the same, as far as what is affecting the rope's strength.
If you are talking about fixing a single rope at the anchor and rappelling on a single strand, you need to watch out for the extremely low friction. Still, the rope isn't going to break.
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emoseman
Jan 12, 2007, 3:14 AM
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angry wrote: uhh, rappelling 100 feet on an 8.1 or 200 feet on 2 8.1's tied together is exactly the same, as far as what is affecting the rope's strength. If you are talking about fixing a single rope at the anchor and rappelling on a single strand, you need to watch out for the extremely low friction. Still, the rope isn't going to break.
Thanks, that is exactly what I was asking. Either a single line hooked on a rappel anchor, or two lines tied together. In other words there is going to be two lines going through my rappel device.
I'm not even sure why I asked, I guess I was just looking for some reassurances. It seems that a lot of the accidents in climbing happen during rappels. I'm just trying to set my mind at ease.
The friction comment brings up an interesting point. I am thinking about bringing a 60M 8.1MM rope when I go soloing so I have two ropes to rappel on the first time up a pitch. I normally climb with a single 10.5MM, I was just looking for some back-up. For me, rappelling down to clean gear on a single line always gives me the willies just because there is only a single line going through my rappel device.
Anyhow!
Thanks!
--
Evan
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heelhook
Jan 12, 2007, 4:44 AM
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Based on others replies I am thinking it is ok to simul rap on doubles tied together. Or have I missed something and going to crater when I try this?
~HH
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emoseman
Jan 12, 2007, 4:50 AM
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Simul rap ? Not sure what you mean...
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angry
Jan 12, 2007, 5:20 AM
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I wouldn't. The rope probably wouldn't break but controlling a single 8mm rope would be a goddamn nightmare.
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carbonrx8
Jan 13, 2007, 3:52 PM
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I have two singles that I drag with me everywhere, and have been thinking of getting a matched set (except for color; need two colors) of doubles/halfs. With the little research that I have done, it seems like a single equals the cost of a single strand of double/half. Is this always the case? What kind of deal on a double should I expect to get. And where have YOU bought doubles/halfs? Are there ever packages of two doubles? (Looking for a 8.1)
And I am afraid to ask this, but would you set up TR on a single double/half? I mean, that is not what is was made for. But if your in a group of three, bringing up two seconds each on a single strand of double is acceptable, so why not a TR setup on a double. It might streatch a bit more than you want, and might not be the best choice in most situations, (and the wrong choice in some), but I am asking just if folks would climb on such a setup in some situation.
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salamanizer
Jan 13, 2007, 5:31 PM
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angry wrote: I wouldn't. The rope probably wouldn't break but controlling a single 8mm rope would be a goddamn nightmare.
Yes, I can attest to that statement. I once had to rap down a single 8.1mm (ice floss) line for a short distance due to a rope snag issue.
Goddamn nightmare I tell you.
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marde
Jan 13, 2007, 6:44 PM
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carbonrx8 wrote: ... And I am afraid to ask this, but would you set up TR on a single double/half? I mean, that is not what is was made for. But if your in a group of three, bringing up two seconds each on a single strand of double is acceptable, so why not a TR setup on a double. It might streatch a bit more...
Thats absolutely no problem.
I did it often for toproping higher ice climbs (with both ropes tied together).
I just don't take singles for ice climbing.
Just take care of rope stretch.
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gunksgoer
Jan 13, 2007, 8:24 PM
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The first thing everyone should remember is not to get twins and doubles mixed up. Halves and doubles are the same thing (clipped alternatly) and twins are clipped together. This means that halves/doubles are designed to safely catch a fall by themselves (the other rope in the set is slack during a fall). Twins are designed for both ropes to catch a fall together. That being said both types of ropes are totally safe to rappel on by themselves and tr on if no nasty edges are involved.
Heres a general scenario to ponder. Longer routes that have full 200' pitches and subsequent 200' rappels require two ropes for rapping. If the nature of the route doesnt require doubles or twins (its extremely rare to need twins) most people will climb with a single and carry a half rope for the rappel. My friend and I did this alot it tuolumne and yosemite, it worked out well. Its much lighter than carrying two singles which arent really necesary. Having a set of doubles and a single is very versitile.
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