|
|
|
|
lhwang
Dec 27, 2006, 10:03 PM
Post #101 of 117
(2072 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2005
Posts: 582
|
roseraie wrote: I think it does come down, a bit, to women wanting to feel like the have big strong men to take care of them. It's the same reason most women won't date guys shorter than them. I think women inherently want to feel protected, and not getting that feeling, for a lot of us, creates strain on a relationship. Hell, as much as I don't want to be a girly girl, I'd definitely cook dinner and do the dishes for someone who'd ropegun 5.11 cracks for me.
Whoa, seriously?!
I get so much pleasure and happiness from being independent and strong, from leading my way up a relatively easy 5.10 instead of having some guy drag my ass up a 5.11, from taking care of myself and not needing someone else to support me.
Is this what it still comes down to? There are more women than men in medical school now, more female governors in the U.S. than ever before, an increasing number of female CEOs in the corporate world, and it's all about finding a big strong man to take care of us?
I don't get it (please don't mistake what I'm saying for nastiness... I just really am taken aback). For me, the bigger strain in a relationship is when a guy feels the need to play out the stereotypical "guy as provider" role and doesn't allow me to be an equal.
|
|
|
|
|
roseraie
Dec 27, 2006, 10:24 PM
Post #102 of 117
(2068 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2003
Posts: 439
|
I'm not talking about financially. I'm talking about basic mammalian instincts.
Instincts DO come into play in dating. Attraction is based on a lot of things we think about and decide, and a lot of things that we DON'T.
And I have a lot of respect for you. I'm not a girl who lets a man pay for everything. I get a lot of pleasure from my own independence. I'm just hypothesizing about the role of instinctual preferences.
|
|
|
|
|
climbs4fun
Moderator
Dec 27, 2006, 10:27 PM
Post #103 of 117
(2065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2003
Posts: 9679
|
lhwang wrote: roseraie wrote: I think it does come down, a bit, to women wanting to feel like the have big strong men to take care of them. It's the same reason most women won't date guys shorter than them. I think women inherently want to feel protected, and not getting that feeling, for a lot of us, creates strain on a relationship. Hell, as much as I don't want to be a girly girl, I'd definitely cook dinner and do the dishes for someone who'd ropegun 5.11 cracks for me. Whoa, seriously?! I get so much pleasure and happiness from being independent and strong, from leading my way up a relatively easy 5.10 instead of having some guy drag my ass up a 5.11, from taking care of myself and not needing someone else to support me. Is this what it still comes down to? There are more women than men in medical school now, more female governors in the U.S. than ever before, an increasing number of female CEOs in the corporate world, and it's all about finding a big strong man to take care of us? I don't get it (please don't mistake what I'm saying for nastiness... I just really am taken aback). For me, the bigger strain in a relationship is when a guy feels the need to play out the stereotypical "guy as provider" role and doesn't allow me to be an equal.
Clearly you've never actually MET Meg. She's about as independent as they come and doesn't need a man to complete her or take care of her.
|
|
|
|
|
clee03m
Dec 28, 2006, 1:56 PM
Post #104 of 117
(2022 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 29, 2004
Posts: 785
|
lhwang wrote: Whoa, seriously?! I get so much pleasure and happiness from being independent and strong, from leading my way up a relatively easy 5.10 instead of having some guy drag my ass up a 5.11, from taking care of myself and not needing someone else to support me. Is this what it still comes down to? There are more women than men in medical school now, more female governors in the U.S. than ever before, an increasing number of female CEOs in the corporate world, and it's all about finding a big strong man to take care of us? I don't get it (please don't mistake what I'm saying for nastiness... I just really am taken aback). For me, the bigger strain in a relationship is when a guy feels the need to play out the stereotypical "guy as provider" role and doesn't allow me to be an equal.
Amen sister, Amen.
|
|
|
|
|
dbrayack
Dec 28, 2006, 5:03 PM
Post #105 of 117
(1986 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 1260
|
From a guys standpoint, I wouldn't have any issues dating a girl climbing harder than myself. Infact, it would be pretty cool + motivating. (Sweetheart, can you hang the draws on this for me? Thanks :) )
I see in a lot of places/hear about the "First Female Ascent." I think that's utter crap. To be honest, I think females can climb just as hard as guys...maybe not on the same types of rock/movements....but still, I think its silly to have a seperate category for women...Like oh...yah a bunch of guys did this really hard route, but WOW a Woman was able to do it...go her, phone the Mags!
I feel bad for all your ladies out their with big breasts...I'm sure they weight you down significantly, but then I have a big butt.....so genetically speaking, I think its a more even field than its made out to be? (I'm not a woman/nor have I performed/read any studies, so what do I know?)
I think women can climb (nearly) just as hard as men if they have the drive/ambition and the self disipline to train hard. I've seen many of hardcore climbing females at the Red River Gorge (which lends itself well to those who are shorter/lighter etc.)
Of course the New River Gorge sucks if you're short and I'm happy to be 5' 8 1/2."
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Dec 28, 2006, 6:59 PM
Post #106 of 117
(1958 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
lhwang wrote: roseraie wrote: I think it does come down, a bit, to women wanting to feel like the have big strong men to take care of them. It's the same reason most women won't date guys shorter than them. I think women inherently want to feel protected, and not getting that feeling, for a lot of us, creates strain on a relationship. Hell, as much as I don't want to be a girly girl, I'd definitely cook dinner and do the dishes for someone who'd ropegun 5.11 cracks for me. Whoa, seriously?! I get so much pleasure and happiness from being independent and strong, from leading my way up a relatively easy 5.10 instead of having some guy drag my ass up a 5.11, from taking care of myself and not needing someone else to support me.
I used to have issues with being ropegunned. Then I figured out that if I couldn't be both ropegunned gracefully (taking advantage of the opportunity to learn/improve my technique and strength) when I'm with a stronger climber and an independent strong leader when I'm on my own leads with the same partner, that the problem lied within myself...not so much with the make up of the team.
I've found that when I'm not having fun climbing (truly heinous situations aside), that altering my attitude always goes a lot farther towards making me happy than trying to control the social details of my situation.
Of course being in the position where you MUST be the leader or at least pull your weight has a lot of benefits. I have found, however, that pulling your weight when you don't have to can be as challenging/character building as doing so when you need to.
In the business world, it's no different. There's typically a mellower escape hatch for women and few will snicker if we take it...more probably snicker when we don't. It takes extra chutzpah to go the step beyond when no one is demanding it of you or when they seem to be expecting the opposite.
A nice solution to the scenario that Meg presented, IMO, would be to seek a ropegun that will also do or share the domestic grunt work. And then with the time that frees up use the TRs that he can offer to get wicked strong and be your personal best. 
|
|
|
|
|
mtbgirlie
Jan 13, 2007, 6:08 PM
Post #107 of 117
(1865 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 2006
Posts: 8
|
Funny. My boyfriend climbs a solid grade harder than me, and I do feel like I am attracted to him because he is a strong climber. However, I keep wanting to get stronger and catch up with him in grades, but we both keep progressing at the same rate, so we are always apart by a grade. He does have one more year experience than me, but man, just once I'd like to be able to climb something that he couldn't!!!
-Jen
|
|
|
|
|
callmedirtyfeet
Jan 15, 2007, 10:02 PM
Post #108 of 117
(1807 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2006
Posts: 4
|
I climb pretty hard for a girl (5.11 b/c lead) and I definately don't have a boyfriend; however, I did for a period of time date a kayaker who got me into boating. We were cool until I started boating better than him, and then he got all freaked. I don't know if that was him being intimidated or what, but I find that all my partners now are guys and none of them want to date me. I've been single for a couple months now--kinda dig on it--but basically no, all girls who climb 5.11 DO NOT have a boyfriend.
In reply to: All women who climb 5.11 have a boyfriend.
|
|
|
|
|
bandycoot
Jan 15, 2007, 11:24 PM
Post #109 of 117
(1796 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 25, 2002
Posts: 2028
|
roseraie wrote: Hell, as much as I don't want to be a girly girl, I'd definitely cook dinner and do the dishes for someone who'd ropegun 5.11 cracks for me.
Damnit Meg! Why didn't you tell me to read this BEFORE we met out in J-Tree! Just kidding. I'd definitely feel like a bastard if you cooked and cleaned. However, I wouldn't mind cleaning after you cooked! ;)
One problem that I have is that when I find a non-climber who I might want to date, we start hanging out more. Inevitably, my enthusiasm for climbing results in them asking me to teach them how to climb. I've done this too many times now, and I feel like Meg. I've taken a few women from complete beginner to trad leading (even bigwall leading). I don't resent it, but I feel done with the process. I would love to date someone who could keep up from the get-go!
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
bizarrodrinker
Jan 16, 2007, 1:04 PM
Post #110 of 117
(1762 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 20, 2005
Posts: 2316
|
bandycoot wrote: One problem that I have is that when I find a non-climber who I might want to date, we start hanging out more. Inevitably, my enthusiasm for climbing results in them asking me to teach them how to climb. I've done this too many times now, and I feel like Meg. I've taken a few women from complete beginner to trad leading (even bigwall leading). I don't resent it, but I feel done with the process. I would love to date someone who could keep up from the get-go! Josh
My girlfriend want's to learn how to do pretty much every outdoor activity that I do, but has never actually done any of them before. Its hared because I like hanging out with her, but to be always teaching someone is kind of like having a second job.
Its cool to get to spend time with each other doing fun stuff, but it sometimes feels like going back to being a beginner again myself. Its a tough situation, but in the end will be worth it me thinks.
|
|
|
|
|
petje
Jan 16, 2007, 1:40 PM
Post #111 of 117
(1760 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 309
|
bizarrodrinker wrote: Its cool to get to spend time with each other doing fun stuff, but it sometimes feels like going back to being a beginner again myself. Its a tough situation, but in the end will be worth it me thinks.
Look at it this way, that's what i do and it helps.
I always think of someone's efforts in for instance sports climbing (as i sometimes coach some people) i always know they are giving 100% of the energy they have. And then it doesn't matter if it's a route graded 5.4 or 5.13. It's all they got, and going for it isn't measured in grades.
So if she's struggling with some novice route, it is still the same amount of effort she is putting in as you do in your projects and i think that demands the same respect from anyone.
I can get just as enthusiastic seeing someone climbing a 5.5, giving it all, topping out on the last strength, as seeing a struggle at a world cup final for instance.
|
|
|
|
|
noell
Jan 17, 2007, 1:32 PM
Post #112 of 117
(1694 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 313
|
mtbgirlie wrote: Funny. My boyfriend climbs a solid grade harder than me, and I do feel like I am attracted to him because he is a strong climber. However, I keep wanting to get stronger and catch up with him in grades, but we both keep progressing at the same rate, so we are always apart by a grade. He does have one more year experience than me, but man, just once I'd like to be able to climb something that he couldn't!!! -Jen
My boyfriend has climbed for several years longer than I have, and he also climbs a number grade harder than I do. We do climb together all the time, we always have our own projects to work on and pretty much the same warm ups.
Anyhow. Just wanted to let you know that I promise a day will come when you can do something he can't, even if he still climbs a number grade harder! That's happened with us a couple of times- once bouldering (my fingers fit, and his didn't, and that roof V6 went down much easier for me than him), once at the Red when I could hang on, and he just couldn't (yahooo!) and once in Rifle (don't know what happened here, but I sent second go, and he fell again.. second go  )
Of course, I count these instances on one hand, he still regularly projects harder than I do, but I am catching up on certain kinds of projects, just give me a couple more years!  Good luck!!! Have fun!
Oh and my $0.02 on the whole subject - I climb alot at the Red and I definitely regularly see climbing chics outclimb the fellas. And I spent alot of time this summer with really strong gals in Rifle and Maple. Gals can definitely give the guys a run for their money!
|
|
|
|
|
cantbuymefriends
Jan 17, 2007, 2:40 PM
Post #113 of 117
(1682 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 670
|
"bizarrodrinker wrote: Its cool to get to spend time with each other doing fun stuff, but it sometimes feels like going back to being a beginner again myself.
"bizarrodrinker wrote: Its a tough situation, but in the end will be worth it me thinks.
|
|
|
|
|
acacongua
Jan 17, 2007, 6:09 PM
Post #114 of 117
(1661 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 657
|
noell wrote: Oh and my $0.02 on the whole subject - I climb alot at the Red and I definitely regularly see climbing chics outclimb the fellas. And I spent alot of time this summer with really strong gals in Rifle and Maple. Gals can definitely give the guys a run for their money!
Noell - Isn't it funny that at the Lode, women are outnumbering the guys these days? I think the men are still climbing stronger on average in comparison, but the ladies are stepping up and taking over at the cliff.
If anyone hasn't been to the Lode, it's a cliff where one of the two hardest 12a's in the entire region is the warm up route. It was my "Proj" last fall. LOL!
|
|
|
|
|
noell
Jan 17, 2007, 9:20 PM
Post #115 of 117
(1632 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 313
|
acacongua wrote: noell wrote: Oh and my $0.02 on the whole subject - I climb alot at the Red and I definitely regularly see climbing chics outclimb the fellas. And I spent alot of time this summer with really strong gals in Rifle and Maple. Gals can definitely give the guys a run for their money! Noell - Isn't it funny that at the Lode, women are outnumbering the guys these days? I think the men are still climbing stronger on average in comparison, but the ladies are stepping up and taking over at the cliff. If anyone hasn't been to the Lode, it's a cliff where one of the two hardest 12a's in the entire region is the warm up route. It was my "Proj" last fall. LOL!
Amen sista! Seriously, it's one of the reasons why I love the Red so much. Rifle and Maple were very similar - pumpy powerful climbs that girls ate up as much as the guys.
It's very much the same down here in Knoxville at the Obed, too, especially amoung the group I climb with. Just this past weekend, there were three girls and only two guys in my group of climbing pals! And trust me, none of these gals were TRing our boyfriends warm ups!
IT's all about what you want to do- I wanted to be an independent climber, I wanted to be able to say, "Hey that looks cool I wanna get on it" and do it all by myself.
Anyhow, yeah, the Red is awesome and the girls that climb there are super inspiring.
|
|
|
|
|
callmedirtyfeet
Jan 19, 2007, 3:27 AM
Post #116 of 117
(1567 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2006
Posts: 4
|
It's a pain in the butt biologically that women are simply built differently than men. In a lot of instances we have to work things so much differently--and often longer--than the guys.
I climb with a full group of dudes, and the way that I do problems is COMPLETELY different from the way they do them. I think a lot of times when I walk up to a project and work it BEFORE the guys I feel a little more confident about it. When the boys hop on it and start using their arm strength--and length--I get all confused.
As far as the grades go in correspondence to dating, I'm single and I find that my buddies are almost afraid of dating me. Probably because we've all been together for years. The funny thing is the only other girl in our crew snagged the new guy when he moved out here.... stupid Kimmi... Eh, I've got climbing right?
|
|
|
|
|
big_red
Jan 19, 2007, 3:38 PM
Post #117 of 117
(1541 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 109
|
OK here's another guy's opinion after reading up to this point:
I would be all about the idea of dating a girl who could throw down ridiculous grades. Honestly, aside from onlookers wondering why she's dating a guy who leads a handicap ramp with 2 falls, the idea of dating a badass climber would be awesome. For me it's more about their passion for the sport. My background is almost exclusively alpine climbing and expeditions. The mountains were so close I didn't ever feel like going rock climbing. (Now that I'm moving to the southwest it may be another story)
Dating a girl who led higher grades on rock would be about the best thing I could ask for and in turn I could possibly bring her up to the Alaska Range and teach her stuff there. I would hope that she would take the same enjoyment from watching me progress in my rock climbing as I would take in watching her progress.
There are so many facets of the sport of climbing that nobody isn't going to learn something from their climbing SO...even if it's just a reminder of how to have fun.
But in the end it's a small part of a big picture.
Ok I'm done...no cockpunch please
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
