Jan 29, 2007, 11:52 PM
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Onsight Poll: Is it an onsight?
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Ok, so there appears to be more controversy than I had expected surrounding what exactly constitues an onsight;
Do you think it can really be considered an onsight if you begin a route (take both feet off the starting point not considered to be part of the route) and return to that point with one or two feet, and then beginning the route again, completing it cleanly on a subsequent attempt?
Adam
(This post was edited by ajkclay on Jan 30, 2007, 12:28 AM)
Ok, so there appears to be more controversy than I had expected surrounding what exactly constitues an onsight;
Do you think it can really be considered an onsight if you begin a route (take both feet off the starting point not considered to be part of the route) and return to that point with one or two feet for whatever reason, and then beginning the route again, completing it cleanly on a subsequent attempt?
A climber ascends the first half of a sport route, clipping draws on the way up. At this point the climber realizes that his spandex doesn’t match his quickdraws. The climber downclimbs, never weighing the rope, unties and goes to his car to put on his hot pink spandex to match the draws. After sticking a cucumber in his crotch to make his penis look bigger he returns to the climb, pulls the rope and sends it clean; clipping the pre-placed draws and placing above that point. Is it an onsight?
(This post was edited by devils_advocate on Jan 30, 2007, 12:22 AM)
...A climber ascends the first half of a sport route, clipping draws on the way up. At this point the climber realizes that his spandex doesn’t match his quickdraws. The climber downclimbs, never weighing the rope, unties and goes to his car to put on his hot pink spandex to match the draws. After sticking a cucumber in his crotch to make his penis look bigger he returns to the climb, pulls the rope and sends it clean; clipping the pre-placed draws and placing above that point...
...A climber ascends the first half of a sport route, clipping draws on the way up. At this point the climber realizes that his spandex doesn’t match his quickdraws. The climber downclimbs, never weighing the rope, unties and goes to his car to put on his hot pink spandex to match the draws. After sticking a cucumber in his crotch to make his penis look bigger he returns to the climb, pulls the rope and sends it clean; clipping the pre-placed draws and placing above that point...
you obviously seen Jay at New Jack last weekend
your obvious and continued humping of jay's leg is really quite impressive! do you fall asleep dreaming of witty insults that you'll post about your friend jt512?
Ok, so there appears to be more controversy than I had expected surrounding what exactly constitues an onsight; Adam
OK, but you need two more items for your onsight poll:
o Yes o No o Maybe o Who cares o I don't know
This addition would bias each answer correctly.
PS Adam: We should arm-wrestle to settle if your mountains are more awesome than my mountains!
interesting that there seems to be the misapprehension here that this about pissing on trees etc....
I am merely pointing to an aspect of the terminology that appears to mean different things to different people and was wondering what the general consensus is.
I couldn't care less who climbs what, who's the best climber, has the best mountains or how many onsights they have, just what people all over the world consider an onsight.
...A climber ascends the first half of a sport route, clipping draws on the way up. At this point the climber realizes that his spandex doesn’t match his quickdraws. The climber downclimbs, never weighing the rope, unties and goes to his car to put on his hot pink spandex to match the draws. After sticking a cucumber in his crotch to make his penis look bigger he returns to the climb, pulls the rope and sends it clean; clipping the pre-placed draws and placing above that point...
you obviously seen Jay at New Jack last weekend
your obvious and continued humping of jay's leg is really quite impressive! do you fall asleep dreaming of witty insults that you'll post about your friend jt512?
i have to hump his leg, your caughtinside his ass ...as i have previously stated
I couldn't care less who climbs what, who's the best climber, has the best mountains or how many onsights they have, just what people all over the world consider an onsight. Adam
Whoa Adam! I'm sorry I pissed you off, I was hoping to keep it light but I failed.
Maybe our conflict is in our point-of-view?
"What people all over the world consider an onsight" sounds like an exact definition of the word.
But really, a lot of guys I know don't use words like "flash", "on-sight" or "red-point". Well almost never. Sometimes somebody will use the word and the guy who did the climb will say "Yeah? Huh!" and then continue what-ever else he was doing.
Because Climbing is what climbers do.
As for who has the most awesome mountains: When I'm out there, it's hard to stop saying "Wow", and I bet you get the same feeling. It's really wonderful how folks can share such a useless sport and get so much enjoyment, don't you think?
If I down climb the hardest pitch then I don't call it "onsite". I will call it a "flash".
If I down climbed a 5.7 pitch, for whatever reason, just so I can onsite 5.9 on second pitch. I would still call it onsite cause the hardest pitch is where the fun is IMHO.
Onsite for me is:
1. No beta about the route ( except for guide book ) 2. No down climbing it. 3. No use of artificial holds. ( grabbing pitons ) 4. No touch of anchors until I'm clipped to them.
How about this? Do you remember when Yuji Hiriyama onsighted Sphinx Crack (13b)?
Rumor has it that he climbed to the roof (pumpy and wierd, but not the crux) wiggled in a tricam and downclimbed. Then he shook out for a bit and fired the route.
A climber ascends the first half of a sport route, clipping draws on the way up. At this point the climber realizes that his spandex doesn’t match his quickdraws. The climber downclimbs, never weighing the rope, unties and goes to his car to put on his hot pink spandex to match the draws. After sticking a cucumber in his crotch to make his penis look bigger he returns to the climb, pulls the rope and sends it clean; clipping the pre-placed draws and placing above that point. Is it an onsight?
During the days of yore, I'm sure ye received more trophies per post than the entire kingdom.
The first time I tried it was in May, I got about 8 feet up and realized I didn't have the gear and it was getting dark so I downclimbed.
I came back in October and sent it easily.
So I never weighted the rope, but I did not send it the first time I tied in to try it.
Not like it really matters. I've got a dozen other tainted onsights, they don't hurt my feelings.
Personally, if you told it to me it that way, I'd be fine with it. If you just said, "I onsighted it" and then later I found out the details I'd make a mental "spraylord" note. As you point out, at best it's a "tainted onsight" as is the example for the poll (although yours is more tainted).
Basically, if you have to ask, "is it an onsight if . . ." then you know there's something a bit off, so you'd better just describe what happened and let the tenuous glory of claiming an onsight be decided by those who choose to repeat your heroic deeds.
Of course, according to the poll, I'm in the minority (which doesn't mean much in a world where GB is president).
I step up to a climb and I climb it cleanly with no falls. Later someone reminds me that I have done this climb before. Does this constitute an Alzheimers onsight?
The first time I tried it was in May, I got about 8 feet up and realized I didn't have the gear and it was getting dark so I downclimbed.
I came back in October and sent it easily.
So I never weighted the rope, but I did not send it the first time I tied in to try it.
Not like it really matters. I've got a dozen other tainted onsights, they don't hurt my feelings.
Personally, if you told it to me it that way, I'd be fine with it. If you just said, "I onsighted it" and then later I found out the details I'd make a mental "spraylord" note. As you point out, at best it's a "tainted onsight" as is the example for the poll (although yours is more tainted).
Basically, if you have to ask, "is it an onsight if . . ." then you know there's something a bit off, so you'd better just describe what happened and let the tenuous glory of claiming an onsight be decided by those who choose to repeat your heroic deeds.
Of course, according to the poll, I'm in the minority (which doesn't mean much in a world where GB is president).
Take a look at the link I posted in the "Lame Redpoint Question" thread. This same question was discussed 10 years ago in rec.climbing. The majority then (most discussants were long-time trad climbers) was that angry's ascent was a clear, untainted on-sight. He didn't weight the rope; he didn't fall; he had no outside information of the route. One poster at made it clear, stating that a multi-day onsight is perfectly valid "even if it takes 15 years." Yuji Hirayama, Jim Erickson, and Steve Hong have all downclimbed to the ground and rested before completing routes, and claimed onsights without reservation.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 30, 2007, 4:01 AM)
Ok, so there appears to be more controversy than I had expected surrounding what exactly constitues an onsight;
Do you think it can really be considered an onsight if you begin a route (take both feet off the starting point not considered to be part of the route) and return to that point with one or two feet, and then beginning the route again, completing it cleanly on a subsequent attempt?
Take a look at the link I posted in the "Lame Redpoint Question" thread. This same question was discussed 10 years ago in rec.climbing. The majority then (most discussants were long-time trad climbers) was that angry's ascent was a clear, untainted on-sight. He didn't weight the rope; he didn't fall; he had no outside information of the route. One poster at made it clear, stating that a multi-day onsight is perfectly valid "even if it takes 15 years." Yuji Hirayama, Jim Erickson, and Steve Hong have all downclimbed to the ground and rested before completing routes, and claimed onsights without reservation.
Jay
actually, this was the stimulus for my question; I was really surprised to see so many experienced climbers espousing this viewpoint so I thought I'd give it a specific thread of its own...
granted I may have been a little ham-fisted in framing my question and defining my reason for asking, but I really am interested in everyone's opinions on this and not necessarily just finding a right or wrong answer... the Yuji Hirayama and co. case is really interesting and sheds light in a way I had not considered before...
I step up to a climb and I climb it cleanly with no falls. Later someone reminds me that I have done this climb before. Does this constitute an Alzheimers onsight?
I step up to a climb and I climb it cleanly with no falls. Later someone reminds me that I have done this climb before. Does this constitute an Alzheimers onsight?
Ha ha! I have wondered about this before too!
Adam
It's happening all too often these days.
Colin Carstenz on the other hand can give a blow by blow description from climbs he's done 15 or 20 years ago. Irks me no end. He'll be walking past a crack at Frog that someone is struggling on and he can immediately let them know exactly where to put their hand and foot. Me on the other hand .......
Colin Carstenz on the other hand can give a blow by blow description from climbs he's done 15 or 20 years ago. Irks me no end. He'll be walking past a crack at Frog that someone is struggling on and he can immediately let them know exactly where to put their hand and foot. Me on the other hand .......
I know what you mean... I spent my first couple of years climbing on top rope because that was what everyone in my group did... after our first trip to Arapiles (which consisted entirely of top roping) I came back to Adelaide, borrowed a rack and taught myself to lead... so then I repeated all the routes I had top roped and even though I had TR'd them in the distant past had a whole pile of "redpoints" that I led for the first time even though the only recollection of having climbed them was when I went to record them on The Crag.
Heh heh, I think a category of Onsight (AZ) would be fair enough
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Climbing is what climbers do. 
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