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builttospill
Mar 10, 2007, 7:07 AM
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Registered: Jan 8, 2004
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I'm going to be trying my hand at aid climbing in the next few weeks, mostly just to get comfortable with it on the off chance I ever need it on alpine routes. I may also want to do a wall at some point, but that's a long ways off most likely.
I've played with a lot of different rope-soloing devices, including the silent partner, petzl shunt, and petzl microcender (and of course the required clove hitch method). For aiding, what kind of jumars should I get? Will a microcender do? I've never jugged a line before, obviously I'll need a second one, but should I just go ahead and buy two of the "handle-type" jumars and scrap the microcender or relegate it to other tasks? Or stick with it? What would be a lightweight ascender suitable for a wall or two in a lifetime, but light enough to take alpine climbing? Anyone?
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philbox
Moderator
Mar 10, 2007, 12:04 PM
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So many questions and so many possible answers.
Silent some instruction. Partner, Tick, awesome device.
Petzl Shunt, crap device that fails at miserably low loads if used as a rope soloing device. No tick from this little black duck.
Microscender, great piece of kit, I definitely would not use it as a rope soloing device, it's great as a rope grab for hauling but rope soloing device, really, smells like a troll to me but I'm gunna keep playing anyway.
I use SRTE handled Explorer ascenders, absolutely bomb proof. You could drop a huge boulder on it and it would still perform its task effectively and safely. The body of this marvellous device is formed from extruded alloy, there is no way that the body could be deformed to allow the rope to self unhitch from the ascender. The ascender has an inbuilt safety feature which prevents the jaw of the ascender from chopping the rope in fact the ascender will shred the sheath at 750 kgs of shock load, it will never chop through the rope.
Never jumared or otherwise ascended a rope, hmmm, go get some instruction.
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vegastradguy
Mar 10, 2007, 12:51 PM
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from what little jugging i've done (and the one small wall)- i wouldnt even consider doing a wall without handled ascenders....petzl seems to make the standards these days, but any will do.
i also suspect handled ascenders would be nice for alpine, but you'll have to ask someone else on that one- i dont do ice.
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moose_droppings
Mar 10, 2007, 5:43 PM
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Registered: Jun 7, 2005
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Like an old age question, a lot of depends.
If your going to be jugging a lot, than by all means get some handled ascenders(Yates, CMI, Petzl). If your just need to jug here and there a little ways, use some other rope grab devices, or prusicks.
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skinner
Mar 10, 2007, 6:37 PM
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builttospill wrote: I'm going to be trying my hand at aid climbing in the next few weeks, mostly just to get comfortable with it on the off chance I ever need it on alpine routes. I may also want to do a wall at some point, but that's a long ways off most likely. I've played with a lot of different rope-soloing devices, including the silent partner, petzl shunt, and petzl microcender (and of course the required clove hitch method). For aiding, what kind of jumars should I get? Will a microcender do? I've never jugged a line before, obviously I'll need a second one, but should I just go ahead and buy two of the "handle-type" jumars and scrap the microcender or relegate it to other tasks? Or stick with it? What would be a lightweight ascender suitable for a wall or two in a lifetime, but light enough to take alpine climbing? Anyone?
If you are going to be aiding get a pair of handled ascenders. Everybody seems to be using petzls now, although they are often the only ones I see available in most of the shops. Personally I prefer the original Jumar. They look smaller and lighter, but are actually the same weight. I own 2 pairs of Jumars and one pair of petzls, as well as a pile of various micro ascenders.
Out of all of them I prefer my 30 year Jumars mainly because of the Z-tooth design on the cam rather then the pick style that all the other handled ascenders have. The Z-teeth don't do nearly the damage to the rope that the pick style do, especially if they slip-n-grab on and icy or muddy rope. Unless you are planning on constantly climbing in these kind of conditions, standard handled ascenders will be fine. I've done a fair bit of caving in the past and have been in situations where there is a fine flow of mud running down the ropes that was so slippery no standard camming style acsender would hold. In conditions like this, the old Gibbs Ascenders were the ONLY answer. Due to the way it cams while putting an almost 90 degree bend in the rope, it will not slip. But under normal conditions I find them slow. Unless you are planing on doing some non-standard form of ascending, like using the Russian style aiders, just get yourself a pair of standard handled ascenders. If you plan on doing a lot, get a beefy pair like the Big Wall Ascenders. Your best bet would be to go out with people who have several types and try them all out to see which you find the most comfortable and easiest to move...for YOU.
-Kevin
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chh
Mar 16, 2007, 2:31 PM
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Registered: Jul 8, 2005
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SRTE does make some good stuff, but it's not widely available in the states, especially for handling/fondling. I haven't used the NForce, but I have used the older Kong's that they are pretty much a remake of. Personally I didn't like the 4 bar design, but it depends on your applications. I've had an ascender junk up with mud and slip a few times, actually that was an old Jumar. Never had to deal with enough ice on a line to completely block a regular ascender's progress. If you plan on working all the time in these scenarios I would handle as many different devices as possible. Most of the time though, any ascender will do. I do like my old Jumar though. That dusty yellow color just brings a smile to my face. I use a Petzl jug now and can't complain I guess. Although I do wish both the holes in it would accept a carabiner. That's my only beef.
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stymingersfink
Mar 17, 2007, 4:30 PM
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Registered: Aug 12, 2003
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^^ if you're gonna go with the petzl jugs find a pair with the old style thumb-releases on ebay. The thumb release on these is a little knob (kind of like on your express screw) that you can screw out a few turns to give it a higher profile. This will make it easier to work the release with gloves on. The handle itself isn't as comfortable as on the new style, but you'll be wearing gloves anyway, whether on a wall or alpine climbing.
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builttospill
Mar 18, 2007, 8:00 AM
Post #8 of 10
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Registered: Jan 8, 2004
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thanks sty....will look into those. Also thinkingof checking out BD's new ones (in their catalog). Not sure what the improvements will REALLY be since I've never used jumars.
Thanks though.
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kane_schutzman
Mar 21, 2007, 2:28 PM
Post #10 of 10
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Registered: May 14, 2005
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stymingersfink wrote: ^^ if you're gonna go with the petzl jugs find a pair with the old style thumb-releases on ebay. The thumb release on these is a little knob (kind of like on your express screw) that you can screw out a few turns to give it a higher profile. This will make it easier to work the release with gloves on. The handle itself isn't as comfortable as on the new style, but you'll be wearing gloves anyway, whether on a wall or alpine climbing.
I may be mistaken, but I think the "older style" also has plastic handles with your finger placements molded into them. The newer style has rubber handles....Might be easier to look for if that is the case.
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