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psprings
Mar 20, 2007, 2:42 PM
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Hey all,
I've been contemplating getting some quickdraws recently, as all of mine are "trad" draws since I don't sport climb that much.
While I love my BD ovalwires for trad draws and my JCs for racking, I guess I just wouldn't feel whipping again and again [yes, I suck that much sometimes!] on on of those ultralight biner things on a metal hanger... the biners that you're scared to death that if you use them to open a beer bottle that you'll have cross-loaded them and torqued it and it will inevitably fail the next time you fall on it... you know the biners I'm talking about... WC Heliums, Camp nanos... hell, that new BD Oz I wouldn't want to climb on. I'm not saying they don't hold what they say they hold, but what about after use and abuse?
Is it just me? I'm wondering how much abuse these thin biners can take of loading as in a biner-brake method or levering over an edge or cross-loading. Are these the biners that everybody thinks are great now, but ends up having to replace them every other year because that don't last in hostile conditions?
All that being said, what do you guys think are the beefiest wire-gate biners out there? Do you guys know of any wire-gates that go against the trend of "light as possible" and have more of an endurance feel to them. Most wire-gates are about 45g [like the Hotwire]. Does anyone know of a wiregate that's more along the lines of the hotwire [same size, gate clearance etc] that weighs more like 50g?
Thanks for your help.
PS
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anykineclimb
Mar 20, 2007, 3:02 PM
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you could get an OP five-0 or DMM wirelocks. I think those are about the beefiest wires out there
(This post was edited by anykineclimb on Mar 20, 2007, 3:02 PM)
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moose_droppings
Mar 20, 2007, 3:03 PM
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About half the biners on my rack are Trango wire gate classic's. Their quite beefy and full sized. Their also a lot cheaper than BD's. Yea, they wiegh in at 45g, but all wire gates are going to be lighter than their regular sybling gated biners.
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unrooted
Mar 20, 2007, 3:04 PM
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The omega pacific Five-0 Wire Gate weighs in at 49 grams, They look ultra beefy,and the probably clip nearly as well as the hotwire, which i think the is the best biner for the rope end on a sport draw.
Also check out the 54 gram DMM eclipse, which for the solid bent gate I find to be the easiest clipping biner around, cause I have big digits.
http://www.northernmountain.com/detail/502631
Other than those two biners every other appears to have been designed to be ultra light.
What you need to do is start climbing in caves, that way you need not worry about edge-loading your biners.
(This post was edited by unrooted on Mar 20, 2007, 3:14 PM)
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zeke_sf
Mar 20, 2007, 3:07 PM
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I've always heard wiregates are functionally stronger than solid gates for their primary purpose: climbing. While opening beer bottles is also a noble task, I am not aware of any specific testing in that area.
Here's a site that lays out the details in an easily comparable format: http://mtntools.com/.../biners/02biner.html
I'd think the Hotwire is beefy enough for all climbing purposes.
(This post was edited by zeke_sf on Mar 20, 2007, 3:13 PM)
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psprings
Mar 20, 2007, 3:14 PM
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Hey guys,
Thanks for the input. I'll check out the Trango and the DMMs [edit: and OP five-o's]. Both good suggestions from the looks of them, but I'm eyeing the DMMs a bit more.
Out of curiousity, I'm also wondering what you all think about clipping bolts with different shaped biners. It *seems* to me that an oval would be the best biner to use to clip a hanger, mainly because that sharp angle that is made by a D tends to load different sides of the biner if the draw moves with the rope too much. My first and only set of 6 QD lasted about 6 years [they were QSII by BD] probably because there were too many hard sport routes that I could only top-rope when I was learning and I had to spend my time on trad...
But I digress. They always got notched up from the hanger. I know that other people experience this too. Does anyone have any experiences using a nicely rounded / radiused oval [like the OP ISO oval, for instance] for the hanger end of a draw? Do they notch up as badly as a D?
Thanks guys,
PS
(This post was edited by psprings on Mar 20, 2007, 3:40 PM)
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zeke_sf
Mar 20, 2007, 3:21 PM
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I've never heard this as a consideration, and I've done a fair bit of sport climbing. It seems like they notch in the same place everytime (the top corner of the biner). Of course, there is the concern your notched biner could rough up your rope, so having a different biner for the hanger end is not a bad idea. YMMV
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kane_schutzman
Mar 20, 2007, 3:33 PM
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To mark my bolt biners from my rope biners, I used some athletic tape, cut into strips and wrapped it around where the biner hangs on the bolt. Works good and I tihnk it keeps the wear down..
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unrooted
Mar 20, 2007, 3:48 PM
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When you first start climbing on a set of draws you will get extremely noticeable sharp notches, but they tend to wear into a smoother pattern, but I do always clip the same end of the draw to the rope, always.
My favorite setup is the BD posiwire, positron on one side and the hotwire on the other side. I do have three other draws that have positrons on one side and bent gate DMM eclipses on the other, I use these for cruxy clippin sections because they are extremely easy to clip.
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psprings
Mar 20, 2007, 4:10 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. I do designate a bolt end and rope end, but there've been some good suggestions offered that I think I'd like to try.
I am still wondering if anyone has noticed that D's notch more than a more symmetrically shaped biner. What I was trying to say, and maybe it didn't come across right, is that it seems that the new D's have a couple things that contribute to notching.
1. Asymmetry- load always occurs near the spine
2. Shape- to reduce the weight of the biner, they've gone [the D biner] to a flattened/triangle shape cross-section, instead of a round cross-section like an oval. The round cross section doesn't have the lip/edge to notch like the D's triangle shaped cross-section does.
My observations are that Ds notch because of these two factors. I haven't had oval draws before, but maybe like Unrooted was saying, I'll get a keylock Petzl oval for the bolt end and a hotwire for the rope side and do a trial run to see if ovals do in fact notch less.
Course, it could take a while since I mostly trad :P Anybody use ovals on their bolt end of the draw??? I know it's doubtful, but...
LOL, I guess this is digressing into a different discussion than the original question. But it's been a while since I seriously thought about QDs, and I'm getting a lot of good input, so thanks and keep it coming!
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psprings
Mar 20, 2007, 4:35 PM
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Thanks for the vote. Now I really need to get my hands on that Trango one and see what it feels like.
I'm probably just too much of a trad guy with my affinity to ovals... they just seem to do so much more than D's. I wish BD or OP made their beefy classic oval, only with a wire-gate. I guess I like the durability of a thick, symmetrical biner.
Se la vie, I guess the designers of any wire gate are more geared for "lightness" and reducing weight in the body of the biner as well. I like wire-gates for the clippability and the simplicity [less pieces], and the weight savings, I just wish the rest of the biner wasn't reduced too!
PS
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unrooted
Mar 20, 2007, 6:39 PM
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Ovals are actually weaker because of the lever arm produced by the apex of the top bar. D's are stronger because there is relatively no lever arm, the weight is transferred directly into the backbone of the biner. Also you may find a slight bit less marring on the ovals, but only because it would be spread out, due to strength and clippability I would opt for the D's, like a spirit or positron.
Also have you seen how expensive the petzl ovals are? I have 1 for aid climbing it cost about 9 or 10 dollars, and the gate is flush to the nose which would make it more difficult to clip.
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psprings
Mar 20, 2007, 7:12 PM
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Yeah, you're definately right about the strength and the clippability of an oval.
After looking at some of the biners, maybe those OP five-o's fit more of what I'm looking for.
They're got that Tru-Radius thing... round cross-section which would probably be better for the marring. For their size, I just wish they weighted a bit more.
Anybody been using them for a while? How do they stand up?
PS
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