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winkwinklambonini
Mar 24, 2007, 8:35 PM
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Early February my North Face Downy's zipper stopped working. I took it in to an EMS to have it fixed since this is where I bought it. If I remember correctly I had a choice between getting it fixed for free in a month, or for $8 in two weeks. Given that it was wicked cold I went with option 2. When it was done they were to call me.
A month and a half later, I called them, and asked where it is. They didn't know, but would call me back tomorrow with the scoop. A week later I called them, and was very clear about what was going on, and that they should actually find my frickin' jacket. Well the guy calls back the next day and say's it's on it's way. couple days after that I go in to pick it up.
A dude who wasn't the guy I talked to on the phone brings it out looking intently at the tag.
"$20? Yeah, they had to clean it." he says.
"Before we go any farther, I don't intend to pay for it."
"Oh yeah?"
"Well, hears what's going on.............."
"OK, we can do that, this time, but just so you know, when you bring in something to be fixed, it needs to be clean, someone should have told you."
"Well, that's a silly policy, but next time you tell a customer that your going to call him back in 2 weeks, that customer shouldn't call you in 6."
Issues:
#1. I'm used to LL Bean, where if something doesn't work, they replace or fix it for free. If they replace it they put it up for sale at the employee store after fixing it. It was very cold the day I went into EMS and I inquired about what the replacement policy was. They just throw it away they said. That is F'd up!
#2. Paying to fix it. No, that doesn't fly in the industry when it comes to wear and tear.
#3. Not calling me. I waited by the phone day and night. A simple call would have been all I ask.
#4. HAVING to wash it? And charging me for it? No.
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zuegma
Mar 24, 2007, 9:43 PM
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Sucks you had such a poor experience with EMS. I have never tried to replace any broken gear as you did, although the one that i will sometimes shop at always has quality service.
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rhythm164
Mar 24, 2007, 9:55 PM
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Well here's your issue, from an EMS employee, if it was an EMS product, it most likely would have been fixed for free, but the company generally doesn't fixed off brand gear free of charge. Another option would have been to send it to North Face, where they probably WOULD have fixed it free of charge. Yea, if someting is beyond repair, it generally gets either tossed, or goes into the "as is" section and is up or sale, taa-daa, as is.
As for not calling you, that sucks, sounds like the wires got crossed somewhere, it wa an oversight, and yea, that sucks.
And for washing it, yea, that's policy, nobody wants to fix your sticky jacket, you should have brought it in clean.
it sucks you had to wait so long, but you cna't expect the rules to change, and just out of curiosity, how long had you had the product when it broke?
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dcaldous
Mar 24, 2007, 10:02 PM
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It is not uncommon for manufacturers to require that a item be cleaned before it is returned. If you look in the warranty terms of many companies they state a charge for cleaning will be applied if items are not clean. If you were going to repair gear for someone would you want to work on a dirty item? If they do have that policy they should have informed you.
The delay is disappointing.
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shockabuku
Mar 24, 2007, 10:31 PM
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Yep, your stuff should have been clean prior to taking it in for fixing.
If it wasn't, they shouldn't have accepted it.
Since they did, it was rightly their problem - I wouldn't have paid for that either.
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c4c
Mar 25, 2007, 12:17 AM
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Man things have changed since I worked for EMS. As a managaer type person I would have offered to have a local seamstress (who we regularly use) replace the zipper and we would eat the cost. It should be clean though. A replacement jacket wasn't out of the question if the customer was in a hurry or prefered one. Talk to the manager next time or ask what 100% satisfaction really means. In my store returns amounted to less than half a percent of our gross sales! Minute compared to a happy lifetime customer!
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jakedatc
Mar 25, 2007, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: 4. Launder any garmet, backpack, or sleeping bag before shipping for repair. Check your item's care tag for proper cleaning instructions. Items not properly cleaned will be returned for cleaning.
http://www.ems.com/...;bmUID=1174843594435
Did you talk to the same person every time? It is sometimes hard to know the story about every item since not everyone is in on the same day, level of experience etc.. It sucks it took so long. As said before if it was an EMS product it probably would have been swapped out for a new one and then put on clearance with As Is.. a major tear or something might have been MOS'd out but a messed up zipper hopefully not.
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carabiner96
Mar 25, 2007, 6:42 PM
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Wink, did you come to my EMS?
As another EMS employee, I have to agree with what was said above...a lot of lines get crossed, I know that me only working part time makes it really hard for me to follow up on customers I started with, but I do my damndest to leave notes for people working the next day to get it done.
When you turned in the jacket, whoever was helping you should have mentioned the cleaning charge. However, I do feel that if a garment was deemed to be needing cleaning, they should have called you to confirm the charge first instead of just going ahead with it.
Wink, come visit me in my store. I'll make sure you get your stuff back!
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winkwinklambonini
Mar 26, 2007, 9:12 PM
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It seems to me that the way it would have worked if everything went "well" was also unacceptable. $28 to have a zipper fixed on a product that generally gets backed up by the manufacturer. $20 of which is for WASHING IT!?
Why must it be washed? It's not underwear or a cum-rag. Maybe I should disinfect every tree I wreck. Maybe I should never have used all those dirty, dirty power tools when I was a boatbuilder.
dcaldous wrote: It is not uncommon for manufacturers to require that a item be cleaned before it is returned. If you look in the warranty terms of many companies they state a charge for cleaning will be applied if items are not clean. If you were going to repair gear for someone would you want to work on a dirty item?
WTF! Even as a former employee of EMS, this is a new and disturbing bit of knowledge for me. NO, I wouldn't mind. This is a down jacket, it both needs to be drycleaned, and is an outer layer. That is totally and completely fucked up. $20 so someone doesn't have to deal with a dirty jacket! Who knew? I left EMS vowing to never work at places like that ever again. I get proven right every day......
Go local, or use EMS to try on shoes, and get'em off the net. 
(This post was edited by winkwinklambonini on Mar 26, 2007, 9:24 PM)
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noamb
Mar 26, 2007, 9:38 PM
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I'm surprised no one has pointed this out yet. The cleaning requirement and the $20 charge are North Face policies (or at least I got exactly the same deal when I had a North Face jacket repaired, not at EMS). EMS may have fucked up in some ways, but that particular policy doesn't seem to be their fault.
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winkwinklambonini
Mar 26, 2007, 9:57 PM
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Am I taking crazy pills? Am I the only person who can see that this policy is wrong? What would a car mechanic think if he was told he needed to turn around and dry clean his jacket? What would you think if you were told you need to go have your car detailed before you got your oil changed, or more appropriately, some repair where the dash had to be removed?
At what point does licking the jacket come into play? After the seamer ripper or the sewing machine?
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mojomonkey
Mar 26, 2007, 10:03 PM
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As a counter point, I have had nothing but great experiences with my local EMSs. An example...
I had picked up an ATC XP from an EMS sometime last year. After a few months of use, I was surprised to see that the bottom of it, where the carabiner pressed against it when the device was engaged, had deformed a little. The biner had dented the metal enough to cause sharp spots on the edges. On a trip in to EMS I brought it with me just to show them and ask if this was a known issue or my special quirk. They hadn't heard of it, but offered to swap it for a new one even though I didn't even have the receipt. I ended up just going with the regular ATC and they refunded the difference.
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winkwinklambonini
Mar 26, 2007, 10:17 PM
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mojomonkey wrote: As a counter point, I have had nothing but great experiences with my local EMSs. An example... I had picked up an ATC XP from an EMS sometime last year. After a few months of use, I was surprised to see that the bottom of it, where the carabiner pressed against it when the device was engaged, had deformed a little. The biner had dented the metal enough to cause sharp spots on the edges. On a trip in to EMS I brought it with me just to show them and ask if this was a known issue or my special quirk. They hadn't heard of it, but offered to swap it for a new one even though I didn't even have the receipt. I ended up just going with the regular ATC and they refunded the difference.
Great! I'm sure that made you feel better about giving them your hard-earned money in the future, didn't it? That wasn't a counter point, that was an example that shows that free replacement or fixing where possible is a viable policy. That's the way it should be....
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noamb
Mar 26, 2007, 10:26 PM
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Yes, I think it must be the crazy pills. How pissed would you be if your nice shiny jacket got nasty gunk on it from all the crap that scraped off all the old, dirty jackets, onto the TNF sewing machines?
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winkwinklambonini
Mar 26, 2007, 10:52 PM
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noamb wrote: Yes, I think it must be the crazy pills. How pissed would you be if your nice shiny jacket got nasty gunk on it from all the crap that scraped off all the old, dirty jackets, onto the TNF sewing machines?
This issue pisses me off the more I learn about it. Your joking right? Is that really the reason behind this policy?
That is what we call an externality. A bottle of cleaner(denatured alcohol) would solve the problem, maybe a couple of times a day? Sewing machines are tools of a trade. They should get cleaned WHETHER OR NOT each jacket going through it represents $20 a consumer had to pay!
BTW, if my jacket was clean when I sent it in,
1, it would have been new, so I would have demanded a refund if it's zipper broke.
2, if I had washed my own just to keep it clean, I would be mad, yes, but I would ask,"Why don't they keep they're frickin' shop clean?" I have never heard of a cleaning technique that involves preventing dirt from entering a repair shop. In fact products are generally cleaned in the shop as a courtesy, leaving dirt IN the shop.
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marc801
Mar 26, 2007, 11:28 PM
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I don't know for certain, but I wouldn't be overly surprised to find out that cleaning a garment (of any type) prior to repair is a health department requirement.
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coastal_climber
Mar 26, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Yes, but how dirty is too dirty?
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winkwinklambonini
Mar 26, 2007, 11:49 PM
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marc801 wrote: I don't know for certain, but I wouldn't be overly surprised to find out that cleaning a garment (of any type) prior to repair is a health department requirement.
You might be right. Dang govment'! I emailed ems to find out what the reason is. Hope I didn't come across as overly pissed off.
Screw finding some elegant unifying formula for all of physics. We need an elegant unifying formula for regulation of business. But that's for the soap box.
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carabiner96
Mar 27, 2007, 12:01 AM
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winkwinklambonini wrote: marc801 wrote: I don't know for certain, but I wouldn't be overly surprised to find out that cleaning a garment (of any type) prior to repair is a health department requirement. You might be right. Dang govment'! I emailed ems to find out what the reason is. Hope I didn't come across as overly pissed off. Screw finding some elegant unifying formula for all of physics. We need an elegant unifying formula for regulation of business. But that's for the soap box.
I dunno, your sounding pretty pissed off to me.
Without repeating what everyone else has said, I have to agree with the clean garment policy. It just sucks you got charged after the fact.
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builttospill
Mar 27, 2007, 12:56 AM
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not sure if this has been said, but I know that the alterations shops around here in utah that my girlfriend goes to all require that the garment be clean before they'll work on it. I think I recall a sign saying it was even state law but I might be mistaken about that.
They should have told you that though and since they didn't, they shouldn't charge you for cleaning it.
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winkwinklambonini
Mar 27, 2007, 12:56 AM
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Ahaa! That was quick! Go EMS......
In reply to: Hi Mike, Thank you for contacting Eastern Mountain Sports regarding our Repairs Policy. I am sorry that you were not told your jacket needed to be clean before the repair, and for the extremely long repair time that ensued. I'm glad to hear that the store waived the repair charges for you. I agree that there are very few other industries that require items to be cleaned before they can be worked on (I'm particularly grateful the auto industry has not adopted this policy...) But, it is standard for the clothing repairs industry to require items to be clean before starting the work. The two main reasons that we require items to be clean before we work on them are: 1. The health and hygiene of our employees: In the past we have received items with body fluids on them - which, as you can imagine is both potentially dangerous and repulsive. 2. Some machines can be very sensitive to dirt and oils. Sewing machines with a fine needle and thread can be easily clogged and damaged, compromising the quality of the repair and the efficiency in which we can complete the work. Some companies do offer a laundering service along with the repairs, but our facility is not set up to do so. Again, I apologize for the long delay in your repair, but I am happy that the store was able to accommodate you with the free repair. I hope this helps to answer your question!
I buy only the second reason for washing all garments.
Otherwise, charge peeps who send in particularly filthy nastiness, and don't wash the others.
So, the second reason is the winner. But, why not wash them all free of charge? He said himself other companies do it. Oh well.......I'm satisfied.
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winkwinklambonini
Mar 27, 2007, 1:18 AM
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In reply to: Thanks Andrew, This may sound odd, but the second reason you gave was the winner. If it was merely hygiene, wash the nastiness and charge the offenders. So anyway I now understand that clean materials are important for the equipment you use. That said, why not wash them all, instead of externalizing what could be called a maintenance expense? It would be much cheaper(big picture wise) to wash bulk garments than for individuals to bring them to a dry cleaner.......resulting in......happy customers with $$$$!!!!! This would also make it safer for your employees by eliminating the stray unwashed garment that comes in.....Out of the box, into the laundry pile. Mike |
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jakedatc
Mar 27, 2007, 1:36 AM
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In reply to: But, why not wash them all free of charge?
he told you
In reply to: but our facility is not set up to do so.
My guess is that A) it add's a liability to their side.. if they screw up your jacket then they owe you a new one instead of a 8 dollar zipper. B) Different garments and gear require different types of washing that would not be very efficient to sort and handle.. ie gore tex jackets need different wash than fleece.. down bags need to be dry cleaned and synthetic bags can be washed regularly..
EMS is not as "huge" as people think it is.. they are tiny compared to REI and LL Bean.. If you are upset talk to the manager.. they should do the best they can to fix the problem within their power. Which it seems like they tried to do.. it sucks it took so long.. that i can't explain since i don't know the process for repairs.
phly.. "http://www._______.com " doesn't seem to offer repairs.. hmm go put your ad somewhere else
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Mar 27, 2007, 1:37 AM)
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