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stevenosloan
Apr 4, 2007, 2:56 PM
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Registered: May 4, 2006
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Hey guys, I'm doing some research for a design project and any help would be awesome. My group did some observation at Fosters last weekend and noticed a disturbing amount of gear sprawl. [granted we were also sprawling] We would like to design a product that would aid in organization and reduce the sprawl, and therefore the human footprint on the area.
Project goals out of the way, a couple questions that would be cool if you could answer:
-what do you do to organize your gear when cragging? what do you like/dislike about this system?
-do you have issues/great praise for crag packs or other strategies/products that are already out there?
-what all do you carry when going cragging?
thanks,
Steven
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el_layclimber
Apr 4, 2007, 2:59 PM
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Registered: Jan 9, 2006
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Why don't you invent a car that gets 100 miles a gallon. That would reduce my environmental footprint alot more than disorganized gear.
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skinnyclimber
Apr 4, 2007, 3:33 PM
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Registered: Apr 27, 2005
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I organize my gear by clipping everything to a runner. and clipping that runner to my pack. Works great. I've found that sprawling gear lends itself to losing and/or forgetting stuff.
What do I carry? Standard gear. rope and quickdraws for sport, gear for trad climbing areas. Also water, food, rain jacket, warm shirt, sunscreen, and herbal supplements.
What are you suggesting here? Not much can be done other that put stuff in a pack or clip it to something...I think.
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shockabuku
Apr 4, 2007, 3:48 PM
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Registered: May 20, 2006
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Here's some input - don't design something that adds weight. I'd rather have my stuff sprawled all over than to carry extra stuff.
I organize by clipping my stuff to a sewn sling and stuffing it into a mesh bag or stuff sack.
The only item I like for cragging beyond a basic pack is a rope bag because I can keep my rope out of the dirt. What else I take - food, drink, sunscreen, rain jacket and maybe a sweater or long sleeve shirt, hat, sunglasses, headlamp, guidebook, maybe a cell phone, harness, miscellaneous slings, biners, trad gear, chalk bag, shoes, flipflops, maybe a camera, roll of tape, pen. That's a lot of crap isn't it?
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Tree_wrangler
Apr 4, 2007, 4:09 PM
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Registered: Feb 8, 2007
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As mentioned before, organize and rack all your gear on slings. That way, when you're looking for the "green cam", you just pick up your cams sling and take it. Do away with rummaging through your pack item by item.
Re-rack your gear on the spot after use, particularly if it's still early in the day and you're heading for another crag. If it's late in the day, you can do it at camp.
Practice packing your pack at home, to determine "in what order" you remove things from your pack. You shouldn't need to remove everything and do your figuring at the base of the rock. You should have at least an idea of what you're using before you get there.
During your packing practice, assign a "job" to each compartment in your pack. Small compartments should account for loose slings, small biner racks, etc. Use the same compartment for the same job every time. After all, you learned how to make an artisan-grad pack at home, right? Why screw with your perfect design?
The general point is to avoid dis-organized rummaging item by item at the base of the crag.
A slightly different angle would be for actual belay platforms to be dug in at the base of crags that are nice and flat. It should be organized with whatever land management agency is responsible for the area, to avoid rare plants, etc. Although it looks like disturbance in the short term, it would save a lot of trampling in the long run. The "let climbers figure it out for themselves" tactic actually causes MUCH more trampling than creating official trails and belay stances.........
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unrooted
Apr 4, 2007, 4:11 PM
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Registered: Mar 13, 2003
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Have you seen the mad rock rope bbucket?
http://www.madrockclimbing.com/...&category_id=254
I think it is kind of silly, but something like this that could fold down easily, and maybe even a little bigger would help organize stuff. I think the problem is just that climbers, especcially sport climbers are sloppy bitches.
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sidepull
Apr 4, 2007, 4:36 PM
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Registered: Sep 11, 2001
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el_layclimber wrote: Why don't you invent a car that gets 100 miles a gallon. That would reduce my environmental footprint alot more than disorganized gear.
Trophy ([homer]it's funny because it's true[/homer])
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j_ung
Apr 4, 2007, 4:39 PM
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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unrooted wrote: Have you seen the mad rock rope bbucket? http://www.madrockclimbing.com/...&category_id=254 I think it is kind of silly, but something like this that could fold down easily, and maybe even a little bigger would help organize stuff. I think the problem is just that climbers, especcially sport climbers are sloppy bitches.
Ditto all that and I'll add that the problem with sprawl isn't a lack of appropriate equipment. It's sloth... which is also one of the 7 deadly sins. Coincidence?! I think not.
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caughtinside
Apr 4, 2007, 4:41 PM
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Registered: Jan 8, 2003
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unrooted wrote: Have you seen the mad rock rope bbucket? http://www.madrockclimbing.com/...&category_id=254 I think it is kind of silly, but something like this that could fold down easily, and maybe even a little bigger would help organize stuff. I think the problem is just that climbers, especcially sport climbers are sloppy bitches.
If anyone is really interested in those rope buckets, you can get the $20 madrock one, or they're like $3 laundry baskets. You can add a couple $1 compression straps if you want to do it yourself.
but this is one of those ideas where it sounds like you have to get more stuff, to deal with your stuff. I've never been a fan of that. Clip it to a sling, chuk it in the pack.
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saxfiend
Apr 4, 2007, 4:49 PM
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Registered: Dec 31, 2004
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Here's an idea: install coin-operated storaged lockers like at the airport. A bank of eight or so every 50' along the base trail would probably do the trick.
JL
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dingus
Apr 4, 2007, 5:05 PM
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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I think an excessive desire for organization reveals cranial-rectum insertion.
Some climbs and adventures you need your pack DIALED.
Other times excessive organization actually reduces efficiency imo.
For one pitch cragging I prefer the sprawl over things like roll up tarps and 'a custom pocket for every tool' Nerd Pack.
Quick side note, but related:
One of my mentors in this sport was an outstanding free climber, difficult climbs and firsts all over N America. He was also a journeyman carpenter and master cabinet maker. Still is as a matter of fact.
Anyway, he converted his barn/garage in Modesto into a cabinet and wood working shop. Shit load of tools, all getting frequent use, you know the drill. this is a guy who earned his living from his tools.
He didn't loan out any equipment willingly. He was very serious about maintaining his tools in perfect working order too.
Now my friend had other friends, they went back to the boy scouts together. These guys went on to become professionals - doctors, lawyers, scientists (seriously, they did).
Now they all looked up to my master same as I. They were constantly coming over, discussing climbing and house renovation projects, etc.
One of these guys, a super anal doctor with a serious cranial/rectum inversion going on, had created his own shop. This is a guy who might turn a screwdriver once every month or so, call it a job well done.
But his shop? Immaculate! Peg boards with individual tool outlines Sharpied in as silhouettes.
My master's shop? Disheveled pandamonium, seeming disorganized and a big mess to boot.
But the reality was... my master knew exactly where all his tools were, pretty much at all times. He was super organized at work and when climbing and he was a thinker too, always given thought out over the horizon as it were.
He detested customized pocket protectors and all the other nerdy bullshit part timers bring to the trades and bring to climbing. His ideal of gear efficiency was to simply take less. A LOT LESS, haha.
Dude always and I mean always had the smallest and lightest pack in any given group. He taught me how to really STUFF a sack or a pack.
Anyway, the most active and experienced climbers I have ever known typically tossed their gear in their packs at the parking lot, willy nilly it seemed.
Till they got to the rock. Drop the pack, put on the harness and freakin TIED IN and ready to go before most others had even picked a place to lay out their California Rolls.
Organization is mostly a state of mind anyway.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Apr 4, 2007, 5:08 PM)
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