Actually, I've seen that recommended in numerous places. Long does in his book on Anchors, and several other articles have suggested this. Aiding on the placements usually gives you a good idea of how strongly they are set.

Following on second and cleaning is important, but not as important as actually setting pro on mock lead. Until you have to stand there jiggering gear around on two chips while your calves just keep getting more and more pumped, you just won't have the right perspective.

Another suggestion I've heard is when you are learning how to trad lead, find something that you feel like you could free solo, and then start leading it.

My point was that one should second and clean at least a few routes so one has some decent idea even HOW to place pro before one starts aiding to test one's so-called ability (I understand the aiding-to-test-soundness method, but on a stiff 10b with almost no trad experience beforehand? Seemed weird...).

well, if the crack is a splitter, the free climbing grade is largely irrelevant, it's probably C1.

Aid climbing easy cracks is a great way to learn/practice gear placement. You get a lot of placements (and thus experience) in low mileage. Plus, you are actually testing your gear, so it's not just theory.

following other climbers is a good way too, but you're not actually placing gear, so you're seeing what someone did, you're not evaluating for yourself whether it's good or bad.

personally, I thought the 'mock leading' thing is kind of silly. If you just want to practice placing gear, do it on the ground. if you're not ready to lead, you're not ready to lead.

Agreed with the first two paragraphs.... doing the aid lead thing will give you a fast appreciation for what's good and what's not. You'll also be surprised what works and what doesn't.

Disagree with the third paragraph, though. I think such "mock" leads help build confidence slowly, which is key. Other folks feel differently, and that's fine.

You'll get good at recognizing good placements and extracting buried placements by seconding a lot, but you still won't know how to place them.

First, he should be cleaning for at least a short while after experienced people, IMO. Then, he should be trying to lead only easy stuff to learn placements--stuff he may have already climbed on TR at least once perhaps, but at least a few grades below his normal capability regardless.

What say everyone else?

following other climbers is a good way too, but you're not actually placing gear, so you're seeing what someone did, you're not evaluating for yourself whether it's good or bad.

Right, agreed, but if you never second an experienced partner a few times initially, how would you even know what a good placement looks like?

Right, agreed, but if you never second an experienced partner a few times initially, how would you even know what a good placement looks like?

I would second CI and Dingus 100% on this.

...most of them just pull me aside at some point ... and say "Look, we didn't really know what we were doing. You had a basic understanding of mechanics, and you just used common sense."

Well, you're already agreeing with me halfway (i.e. lead something way easy or mock lead [which I didn't say but I know is a good option]).

...).

First, he should be cleaning for at least a short while after experienced people, IMO. Then, he should be trying to lead only easy stuff to learn placements--stuff he may have already climbed on TR at least once perhaps, but at least a few grades below his normal capability regardless.

What say everyone else?

IMHO mock leading is the safest way with a mentor coming 2nd to inspect - a new leader is in just as much danger (maybe more) by aiding - if you pull a piece you may pull them all whereas a new leader may not fall at all on poorly placed gear.

Yup. It's not exactly brain surgery, after all.

I dunno. Cams are pretty easy to learn fast. Once you've got that dialed from the ground, you can start learning about things like proper slinging and things of that nature. To be certain, I wouldn't advice anyone learning to place pro on a climb that has good, if tricky, protection. That is, difficult nut placements and the like. Nuts are harder to figure out the true limits of, and its something that still gives me trouble these days. That and very small cams, but that's neither here nor there.

To each her own. Some people need rigid 'thou shalt follow the path EXPLICITLY' and never deviate from those instructions.

Others adopt a more exploratory mindset and seek out, rather than waiting to be instructed. Such folk are likely to read a book, for example, and then go practice what they read.

Climbing is a lot of things to a lot of people. But the self-starter aspect is very appealing to some of us. We feel fairly confident in our own judgements and ability to, for example, translate book reading into rock time.

By way of example, I read a how-to book on big wall climbing. Read it again. Memorized the systems. Encouraged a partner of mine to do the same.

We went up and did a 4 pitch aid route and next thing you know I have several walls underneath my belt.

Now that isn't the WAY for a lot of folks I understand that. Just trying to show you that your WAY isn't for everyone either.

For my part I am befuddled by people who 'wait for instruction.' Truly.

Cheers
DMT