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mountainstuss
May 5, 2007, 11:14 PM
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Noob to aid climbing, about to invest in some etriers. Wondering about 5 vrs 6 step aiders. What are the pros and cons and so forth? Which would you recommend? Thanks in advance
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jerseyclimber
May 5, 2007, 11:22 PM
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From the relatively small amount of aiding I've done I can say that I prefer five steps to six. There's less bulk and that's always a good thing when aiding. If the extra length is absolutly needed on a particular move you can simply clip a sling to the bottom step and you'll gain that sixth step. Good luck...but beware....aid is quite addictive!
(This post was edited by jerseyclimber on May 5, 2007, 11:23 PM)
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m-earle
May 5, 2007, 11:34 PM
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I have little aid expirience, but last year i bought a pair of the BD 6 step aiders. i couldn't decide weather to get the 6 or 5, but figured i could cut the last step of my 6's if i didn't find i need them. I am 6' with a long reach, and find that i don't really need the extra step, so i will probably cut them. Keep in mid thuogh, when i do aid climb, it is usually only for a pitch or two inbetween free climbing. if you are looking to do intensive aid routes, where you will be standing in aiders all day, i would go for six. Again, i don't do that much aid so I really don't hold an opinion that you should trust on the subject.
-mason
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organika
May 6, 2007, 12:30 AM
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I have played with many combos....My personal favorite is a 6 and 5 combo per daisy. I am over 6 foot and having a six step makes it easier for me to get my foot into if i am in the top two steps of the other aiders....it seems this way i can bounce test the next piece from a stable position...but eh..that my .02 anyhow.....speed ladders by yates will be my next purchase......I have a tendency to make a cluster f*** up there.
L
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2007, 1:30 AM
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no matter what, DO NOT CUT YOUR LADDERS DOWN!!!! in an emergency they can be used as a full strength runner, that is, until you have altered them.
I like to run with four aiders, or two pairs.
Each pair consists of a five and a six step etrier. As wallress mentioned, the ladders are preferable to the off-set steps (think Misty or Yates). I have a set of the BD etriers, and one set of the Misty, making two pairs. I have found that I prefer the misty ladders.
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giza
May 6, 2007, 2:26 AM
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I'm 6'3" and find that while top-stepping and making reachy moves I wish I had 7 steps instead of 6.... can't imagine having only 5 steps to work with.
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2007, 2:31 AM
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clip a 30 or 60cm sling to the bottom step maybe?
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majid_sabet
May 6, 2007, 2:37 AM
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[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 6, 2007, 2:58 AM)
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mike_ok
May 6, 2007, 3:55 AM
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This picture just never gets old ;-)
I'll second the advice for ladders... (Yates). Also suggest a notchless biner on top (BD positron or Petz Spirit)... makes clipping in and out of the pro much smoother.
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pbcowboy77
May 6, 2007, 8:03 AM
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I too am 6'3" and I have started using 7 step from Yates. Makes a world of difference when your in your top step. i say deal with the bulk and get the long one's, you won't regret it. But when your either trying to high step into your ladders or want to get lower to bounce test you will regret it.
What I do is use two six step and one floating 7 step to try to keep the bulk down, but I think I'm gonna go back to using four aiders (two six step and two seven step)
Oh and yes, go with the ladders. Way better
Z
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desertdude420
May 8, 2007, 12:44 AM
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For a wall setup use two 5 step and two 6 step aiders, rig one of each on each daisey. That way, when you are moving onto the new/highest placement, you have one aider with an extra (low) step. Your next step will be one up from the one the other aider, so using two of the same length is silly Get it? There's only one first/low step, so get one of each on each side. There!
P.S.- Get four separate colors of aiders for obvious reasons!
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flamer
May 15, 2007, 11:37 PM
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Do yourself a favor. Do not buy/use 4 aiders. Learn to do it with 2 aiders and 2 daisy's. It's way faster and way less of a hassle. The system to do it is easy.
...but do use the ladders instead of the etriers.
josh
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shimanilami
May 16, 2007, 12:45 AM
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I might as well weigh in, too.
Ladders are preferred. Yates or Misty Mountain.
Make sure that each aider in a "set" has the same spacing between steps. You want to be able to put your feet at the same level for balance, and if your steps don't line up with each other, then you'll always be standing with one foot up higher than the other, which is frustrating.
I like having a 6th step, especially when on traversing, dicey pitches where you want to stay as low as possible. I hadn't considered using a 5-step and 6-step in combination within the same set. I suppose this could reduce tangles (but by how much, really?).
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stymingersfink
May 18, 2007, 5:37 AM
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the 5-6 combo makes sense when you think about stepping up into a placement made from one's top step (or near-abouts).
in that, the placement may be made, the ladders/daisy connected, then one might step down a tad to relax a bit for testing. i will perform initial testing with the daisy sometimes, as I can generate a pretty good body-weight bounce with it alone.
having the longer ladder will facilitate getting a foot into the bottom rung, where more elaborate testing may occur, but once I know it's good enough, up i go. since i am now moving up, a pair of 6 steps would be unnecessary, which is why i pair the six with the five.
all of this might highly unnecessary on c1 where a pitch might only take an hour or less, but when you're in the stirrups for 5+ hours of sheer terror, having two pairs of ladders can be key to one's continued comfort. well worth the extra weight and additional CF-management issues, in my book.
i guess it all depends on what you're gonna be getting on. I've tried the 3-ladder system advocated by Ron O.'s video, and that system works fine on easy stuff, but might come up lacking on some more challenging pitches.
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flamer
May 18, 2007, 6:27 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: but when you're in the stirrups for 5+ hours of sheer terror, having two pairs of ladders can be key to one's continued comfort.
...or it could be one of the reason's you're in the stirrups for that long.
josh
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climbhigher
May 19, 2007, 1:42 AM
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Use one 5 step and one 6 step. Bring a 3rd for traverses and roofs or where ever u might need it. Just clip the third aider to the other one when needed. the slight offset is not a problem. Put your wrist through the webbing on top of aider and thumb over it like holding a ski pole if you ski. Get use to climbing your aiders and using rock features even if u use Yates or Metoilus aiders. Fifi in from waist to top biner. Have fun.
Chris.
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climbhigher
May 19, 2007, 1:47 AM
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Oh yeah, most aiders are good. I prefer the ladder type steps on top of steps over "etiers" sp? where the steps are offset. I use Mountain Misty's they are kind of like the Yates. I have used BD which are good and Metouilus which are also good.
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pmyche
May 19, 2007, 4:24 PM
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climbhigher
May 20, 2007, 12:39 AM
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(putting hand through loop) and above i met to say yates or metoluis daisey's. Actually, Putting hand through loop (After bounce testing that skecthy piece of gear) and climbing your aiders and not cinching up your daiseys saves lots of time and keeps you from getting a forearm pump.
I learned this method in the early 90's from John Middendorf.
I see no problem if the piece blows????
I would like to hear your opinion on this.
And other problems with this method.
One other thing. I found out using the bar on Yates aiders gives me a pump much faster because you are doing assisted one arm pull ups over and over again. My method it's like holding onto a ice axe after a placement.
Cheers,
Chris.
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epic_ed
May 21, 2007, 11:49 PM
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I think the question of how many steps is of lesser importance than which style of aider and how many to use. Of course, all of this stuff is personal preference but I couldn't even recall how many steps my ladders have until I looked it up. I could tell you from vivid memory, however, that I much prefer a ladder style to staggered; and out of the ladders on the market I much prefer my Yates stuff than the Moisty Mountain or Metolius ladders I have.
I started out using two-pair of ladders and did it that way for a couple of years and then decided to try less cluster-fuckage to see if it helped speed things up. There was an uncomfortable transition period but I eventually got used to one ladder per daisey, plus a third (Yates Speed Ladder) clipped to the harness just in case -- for traverses or over hangs. After a while that 3rd ladder rarely got used. The benefits of less CF, lighter weight, and increased speed were well worth the time invested to learn a new technique.
YMMV.
Ed
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pmyche
May 23, 2007, 7:57 PM
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climbhigher
May 30, 2007, 3:01 AM
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Hello. . I don't usely bounce test any peices while aid climbing anything A3 and under. I can usely see if the piece is good or not by just looking at it. And when pounding pins I know if it's good just by feel and sound most of the time. I don't cinch up my yates adjustable unless i absolutely have to. They are great for roofs and traverses. And i never use them alone for tying into the anchor with out being tie in with the rope also.
U sound like a experienced fast aid climber. how's your free climbing, ice climbing, and alpine climbing compare?
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pmyche
May 31, 2007, 5:47 AM
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climbhigher
Jun 9, 2007, 2:34 PM
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I found out those six steps are really good when u want to get really low to test that iffy placement. One six step and one five step, Maybe?
Anyways, I am have been extremely busy lately and I am retired from aid climbing for the time being. All focus goes to Work, Diet, Sleep, and Freeclimbing. With a little Basketball and Pool thrown in for concentration during distraction and being consistent. Remind me not to gamble at Pool, Please!!!
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