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majid_sabet
May 13, 2007, 4:18 PM
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Mt. Hood the Everest of North America for weekend n00bs
=====================================
The climbers, who had planned on a one-day trip Saturday, got in touch with police via cell phone when they were stymied by whiteout conditions. They had a global positioning system and mountain locator unit with them. And, following rescuers' advice, they built a snow cave to help stay warm.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/...d_on_mount_hood.html
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tanner
May 13, 2007, 8:04 PM
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Dumb da dumb dumd.
I wonder who will be the youngest one eyed gay quadropolegic to climb hood. Do you think he would allow hiself be be hauled past a fellow climber in trouble. Would he make room on his sled and share an ipod headphone?? Or... Would he continue blindly enroute to the summit with no regard for his fellow man?
Hood could be the next Everest.
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ja1484
May 13, 2007, 8:15 PM
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So far as I can tell, everyone who's gotten into trouble on Hood this year has either ignored forecasts of bad weather or been way too inexperienced to be up there in the first place.
Judgement lapses will continue to kill "casual" climbers, no matter the venue, forever.
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time2clmb
May 13, 2007, 8:20 PM
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What a bunch of fuggin morons. Maps, gps, and still not a clue....hopefully this taught them a lesson. I think it's funny that they published the names of the group...good to know.
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wolfski
May 14, 2007, 4:19 AM
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i had a friend who use to work around hood and he said he would watch people glissade with crampons
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the_climber
May 14, 2007, 4:06 PM
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I especially liked the comments posted afterwards! 
Really getting a kick out of the one posted by the member of the part rescued. It seems he's trying to defend himself yet still maintain a politeness to it.
This really reads like a case of lack of experience and ability. Wait let me re-phrase that: It seems like a case of overwhelming lack of general mountain knowledge, an overwhelming unfamiliarity with the equipment necessary to navigate in less than Ideal mountain conditions, all combined with a general lack of preparedness on the party's part with regard to both the planed route of accent and their mountain skill sets.
Seriously, if this occurred remotely like how it reads, these guys need to be slapped upside the head with a copy of F.O.T.H, and lectured on the finer points of building a skill set for mountaineering! What would they have done in the event of a crevasse fall, or some other objective hazard? Note that I am not familular with their chosen route, but with how it sounds they would have been in trouble on any mountain in any country with anything less than bluebird sky conditions.
Somebody please tell these jokers that sport wanking is no substitute for mountaineering skills, neither is hiking through forests, or bouldering, or the climbing gym….
Hell, I would hate to see what would have happened if they had tried some of the peaks in the Canadian Rockies… 9 times out of 10 you have no cell coverage out here. They likely would have gotten lost on Mt. Joffre up here.
Couldn’t find their way down? Uhhh, well, gravity is a little hint now isn't it?!
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notapplicable
May 14, 2007, 7:10 PM
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the_climber wrote: Seriously, if this occurred remotely like how it reads, these guys need to be slapped upside the head with a copy of F.O.T.H, and lectured on the finer points of building a skill set for mountaineering!
What? Are you trying to say that just because I bought abunch of nuts, cams, biners and went sport flailing 3 times I'm not ready to lead Astroman. Please, I'v got all the gear, all I have to do now is get out there and trad it up.
I would feel like a total ass for makeing some poor bastard get out of bead at 11:00 and come hold my hand while I walked out under my own power. From the list of gear they hauled along with them they probably had more than adaquite clothing to withstand 20 degree temps and moderate winds. If that is the case there is no excuse for them not getting themselves out of that mess. I know pride can get you killed and you have to walk a fine line but at the very least they should have descended to below the tree line and after it got light hiked there ass out of there. F'n idiots.
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builttospill
May 14, 2007, 10:49 PM
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I particularly enjoyed the fact that the one guy's mom commented on his experience and the whole situation. He's 28 fucking years old, and his mommy is being quoted in an article about his incompetence.
That would make me feel pretty bad.
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mudlab
May 16, 2007, 11:30 PM
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So being someone that has been on Hood and some one that has rescued people off Hood. These guys had no right getting out of their cars. It seems like more idiots are going up there which put rescuers in danger more often. When will they learn.
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billl7
May 17, 2007, 12:30 AM
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Anything out there from the climbing party's perspective? So far, there's just stuff from some irritated rescuers and the regular lynch mob. Anyone?
I did see Brian Weihs sarcastic retort to the article linked in the OP - not much real content though.
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mattq331
May 17, 2007, 12:42 AM
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Tara! Tara! Tara!
Yes folks, it's the indomitable armchair cavalry led by the ever-prescient Major Sherbet charging into action. More noise than light, the brigade fearlessly wank-fests over others mistakes.
Ready at a moments notice to take as gospel the dubious spewings of the media, and assorted SAR mouthpieces (some of whom clearly are a hairs breadth away from disaster themselves), their keen ability to prove their manhood should astound and bewitch you.
Or, alternatively, and perhaps more usefully, you could always clobber yourself in the brain basket with a hammer and go back to sleep.
Tara! Tara! Tara!
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mudlab
May 17, 2007, 12:54 AM
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So I'm not a irritated rescuer. It's just that do to the recent issues here on Hood they are passing laws requiring certain equipment. There is talk in limiting who and when they can go up there. So my point is, do to some people that lacked to get the training people are steping in and changing things for everyone. I believe in this case they did have the gear, just not sure how to use it. I feel they might of launched SAR teams a little to soon also. Last but not least I wasn't there.
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majid_sabet
May 17, 2007, 1:04 AM
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I read some where that last group of lost commandos on North American Everest wrote a check for $15000 to SAR guys for getting them out.was that true ?
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mudlab
May 17, 2007, 1:14 AM
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Wow, haven't heard about that. I would love to be paid, well I guess I do from taxes.
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billl7
May 17, 2007, 1:37 AM
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mudlab wrote: So I'm not a irritated rescuer. It's just that do to the recent issues here on Hood they are passing laws requiring certain equipment. There is talk in limiting who and when they can go up there. So my point is, do to some people that lacked to get the training people are steping in and changing things for everyone. I believe in this case they did have the gear, just not sure how to use it. I feel they might of launched SAR teams a little to soon also. Last but not least I wasn't there.
It seems they had a GPS, mountain locator unit, and cell and the latter two were used. Sounds like they didn't mark their approach with the GPS so they were not able to backtrack. Then again, they may have felt that backtracking wasn't an option in the first place.
As to their abilities, all that seems clear is that one or more rescuers felt they didn't have the necessary skills/experience. That said, in a party of 5 I would not be surprised if one of them didn't know how to use the GPS with maps.
It just seemed like a one-sided article to me.
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builttospill
May 17, 2007, 3:09 AM
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billl7 wrote: mudlab wrote: So I'm not a irritated rescuer. It's just that do to the recent issues here on Hood they are passing laws requiring certain equipment. There is talk in limiting who and when they can go up there. So my point is, do to some people that lacked to get the training people are steping in and changing things for everyone. I believe in this case they did have the gear, just not sure how to use it. I feel they might of launched SAR teams a little to soon also. Last but not least I wasn't there. Yes, I've followed a little about the potential legislation. I hope it doesn't pass if it hasn't already. It seems they had a GPS, mountain locator unit, and cell and the latter two were used. Sounds like they didn't mark their approach with the GPS so they were not able to backtrack. Then again, they may have felt that backtracking wasn't an option in the first place. As to their abilities, all that seems clear is that one or more rescuers felt they didn't have the necessary skills/experience. That said, in a party of 5 I would not be surprised if one of them didn't know how to use the GPS with maps. It just seemed like a one-sided article to me.
Bill and others....
You'll have to excuse me if you think I'm part of the regular lynch mob. I've been on Hood in the winter during a relatively fierce storm (standard south side route only) and it wasn't that hard to find my way down. I didn't have a GPS, Mountain Locator Unit or anything else (I did have a cell phone I think). I was alone.
I found my way down. It wasn't THAT hard. And I don't have 20+ years of experience in the mountains. I suppose maybe I have some common sense, a bit of experience and sufficient interest in getting out of things myself that I didn't even consider for a moment the possibility of calling someone on my cell phone to be rescued.
I'm sitting at work in a Utah call center and I'm looking at pictures of a route a couple of friends did recently and people come up and ask me where they are. Then they make snide remarks about how they'll fall and demand that someone come rescue them. I could give a damn about any legislation that passes because I won't follow it anyway. But I don't like having people look down their noses at me as if I'm endangering SAR workers and costing taxpayers money when I'm not. Now, that's part a problem with the public and part a problem with inexperienced individuals getting in over their heads on Hood, but either way, it annoys me.
I'm the first to jump to someone's defense when they get hurt in an accident that was not their fault (I've had 3 friends involved in two separate avalanche accidents, and know a climber or two who has been killed in falls in alpine areas)....but I'm not going to defend individuals who, all available evidence indicates, didn't know what the fuck they were doing. If someone speaks up to these folks' abilities or past experience, I'll be the first to retract my admittedly rude comments.
I never said a bad word about the 3 guys on the North Face of Hood because they clearly had some experience and weren't clueless. These guys, on the other hand.....as far as I can tell, were out of their league.
And that's all I've got to say about that.
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billl7
May 17, 2007, 3:24 AM
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builttospill wrote: I never said a bad word about the 3 guys on the North Face of Hood because they clearly had some experience and weren't clueless. These guys, on the other hand.....as far as I can tell, were out of their league.
In contrast, this latest group seems to have gotten out on their own steam at much much much lesser cost and risk in terms of a rescue effort.
(This post was edited by billl7 on May 17, 2007, 3:28 AM)
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the_climber
May 17, 2007, 2:40 PM
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billl7 wrote: builttospill wrote: I never said a bad word about the 3 guys on the North Face of Hood because they clearly had some experience and weren't clueless. These guys, on the other hand.....as far as I can tell, were out of their league. I don't see so much difference between an experience group working the more technical north face in winter versus some relatively inexperienced group on the milder south face in mid-spring. It appears both were treading near the edge of their abilities and thought they would make it. Both got into trouble. In contrast, this latest group seems to have gotten out on their own steam at much much much lesser cost and risk in terms of a rescue effort.
I think you're a little off on that one. You can't compair an experianced party on a chalenging route to an inexperianced party which all evidence points to them NOT having the neccicary "BASIC MOUNTAIN AND NAVIGATION" skills. There is a certain minimum skill requirement that 'should' be there before heading onto a mountain. This minimum should be in the form of practical experiance, not just accademic. From what it sound like this group "may" have have wilderness or outdoor skills, but were SERIOUSLY lacking in the Mountain skills department, and thus likely had NO buisness being on the mountian, especially in less than perfect weather conditions. Perhaps something a little more basic in the company of a few experianced climbers would have been a better choice. I have friends that work for SAR groups and when they rescue people due to stupidity... well the frustration that they had to travel extensivly though dangerous terrain is evident. Don't get me wrong, by the sounds of it the rescuers in this case didn't have to cross much if any 'dangerous terrains' to find these yahoos.
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sungam
May 17, 2007, 2:59 PM
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billl7 wrote: I don't see so much difference between an experience group working the more technical north face in winter versus some relatively inexperienced group on the milder south face in mid-spring. It appears both were treading near the edge of their abilities and thought they would make it. Both got into trouble.
-MagnuS
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billl7
May 17, 2007, 3:01 PM
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the_climber wrote: You can't compair an experianced party on a chalenging route to an inexperianced party which all evidence points to them NOT having the neccicary "BASIC MOUNTAIN AND NAVIGATION" skills.
To be sure, going safely into the mountains warrants an assumption of responsibility for your party's safety and knowing whether you have the miniminum set of abilities, whatever that is. Even though one party may have more abilities than another, they still own the decision of how much to tax those abilities.
It's like the difference between a 5.7 trad leader bailing on a 5.9 versus a 5.10a leader bailing on a 5.10c: very litte difference.
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the_climber
May 17, 2007, 3:12 PM
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billl7 wrote: It's like the difference between a 5.7 trad leader bailing on a 5.9 versus a 5.10a leader bailing on a 5.10c: very litte difference.
BTW are you implying that in all your years of Scrambling and off-trail backpacking and climbing, that you have never once, not once lost the trail or got off route be it on the approach during the route or on the decent? I would be surprised if you honestly said yes.
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billl7
May 17, 2007, 3:32 PM
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the_climber wrote: BTW are you implying that in all your years of Scrambling and off-trail backpacking and climbing, that you have never once, not once lost the trail or got off route be it on the approach during the route or on the decent?
Read that as you will but I really don't hold myself above either of these parties.
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