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madrock
May 25, 2007, 10:12 PM
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Lots of great photos on the site and floating around with our fellow climbers. Why are there only a small group of photographers who get featured in the Magazines. Are not enough people submiting them for consideration?
Joe
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majid_sabet
May 25, 2007, 10:28 PM
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IMO, most climbing magazines and editors do not deserve to get those photos. Editors who sit behind the desk in some office building do not understand what most people went thru to capture those images.
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anykineclimb
May 25, 2007, 10:28 PM
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why not use their photos for your ads Joe?
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desertdude420
May 25, 2007, 10:28 PM
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Climbing photography is one of the most technical forms of outdoor sport photography. If you aren't a master climber and rope rigger, all you're going to get is the typical ass shot from below. Plus it's a pretty small pool of participants compared to say backpacking or mountain biking. If you do get that cover shot, there's only a few mags/outlets to sell to. And they don't pay much.
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desertdude420
May 25, 2007, 11:11 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: IMO, most climbing magazines and editors do not deserve to get those photos. Editors who sit behind the desk in some office building do not understand what most people went thru to capture those images.
You mean photo editors don't deserve their jobs? How can one edit photos if they are out climbing? You make no sense man.
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ja1484
May 25, 2007, 11:17 PM
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desertdude420 wrote: Climbing photography is one of the most technical forms of outdoor sport photography. If you aren't a master climber and rope rigger, all you're going to get is the typical ass shot from below. Plus it's a pretty small pool of participants compared to say backpacking or mountain biking. If you do get that cover shot, there's only a few mags/outlets to sell to. And they don't pay much.
This reply makes the "ding ding ding" sound. Climbing photography is a hassle. Lots of rigging, ascending, descending, etc involved. I imagine for a lot of photogs, it's not worth the trouble.
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majid_sabet
May 26, 2007, 12:10 AM
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desertdude420 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: IMO, most climbing magazines and editors do not deserve to get those photos. Editors who sit behind the desk in some office building do not understand what most people went thru to capture those images. You mean photo editors don't deserve their jobs? How can one edit photos if they are out climbing? You make no sense man.
You know
If all magazine editors were climbers and knew about climbing, we would had much better climbing magazines out there but now all you see is nothing but a worthless magazine with 69 pages of ads and 1 decent photo .
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anykineclimb
May 26, 2007, 12:45 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: desertdude420 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: IMO, most climbing magazines and editors do not deserve to get those photos. Editors who sit behind the desk in some office building do not understand what most people went thru to capture those images. You mean photo editors don't deserve their jobs? How can one edit photos if they are out climbing? You make no sense man. You know If all magazine editors were climbers and knew about climbing, we would had much better climbing magazines out there but now all you see is nothing but a worthless magazine with 69 pages of ads and 1 decent photo .
Hmmm....
(grabbing copy of Rock and Ice...)
Editor in Chief- Duane Raleigh
Editor- Jeff Jackson
Executive Editor- Alison Osius
Sr. Contributing Editors- Barry Blanchard, Geof Childs, Kelly Cordes, John Long, Lizzy Scully, Tyler Stableford, Pete Takeda, Jon Waterman
Contributing Editors- Chris Belczynski, Tommy Caldwell, Niall Grimes, Sonie Trotter
Wow Majid YOU'RE SOOOO RIGHT!!!
These people know NOTHING about climbing!!!
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pico23
May 26, 2007, 2:17 AM
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ja1484 wrote: desertdude420 wrote: Climbing photography is one of the most technical forms of outdoor sport photography. If you aren't a master climber and rope rigger, all you're going to get is the typical ass shot from below. Plus it's a pretty small pool of participants compared to say backpacking or mountain biking. If you do get that cover shot, there's only a few mags/outlets to sell to. And they don't pay much. This reply makes the "ding ding ding" sound. Climbing photography is a hassle. Lots of rigging, ascending, descending, etc involved. I imagine for a lot of photogs, it's not worth the trouble.
This has always been an issue for me. Even at my peak I only had 100 days on rock or ice a year but when work cuts in, as well as mid summer heat, rain ect. you might only get 40-50 days a year.
Tough to give up those days to rig from above. Whereas backpacking, paddling, and biking are more participatory.
I can cover the same/similar ground in a day of backpacking/paddling/biking while coming home with many nice shots vs. climbing where i am merely a photographer and not a climber.
Quite a few years ago I was interviewing for a photog/outdoors columnist job at my university paper. I told the editor I really didn't consider myself a photographer as much as a participant in the activities which I took photos.
To a large extent that is still true, and climbing doesn't generally allow that to be the case.
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joe
May 27, 2007, 3:48 PM
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Here's my theory in an analogy:
Pretend that you're a Dade County coke dealer who needs x kilos per month to keep up with demand. You have a well-established relationship with Supplier A down in Medellin who can deliver 10 kilos of pure coke on a consistent basis without hassle.
Then you have Supplier B, who can maybe get you 1 kilo once, maybe twice per year. Most of the time the coke is already stomped-on, low quality baby powder but every once in a while he'll get you a good one.
Which guy are you going to deal with on a regular basis?
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majid_sabet
May 27, 2007, 4:54 PM
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anyineclimb
You are right, I am wrong for not paying $6 for those worthless magazine but I am sure that I am not the only one .
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macblaze
May 27, 2007, 5:08 PM
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joe wrote: Here's my theory in an analogy: Pretend that you're a Dade County coke dealer who needs x kilos per month to keep up with demand. You have a well-established relationship with Supplier A down in Medellin who can deliver 10 kilos of pure coke on a consistent basis without hassle. Then you have Supplier B, who can maybe get you 1 kilo once, maybe twice per year. Most of the time the coke is already stomped-on, low quality baby powder but every once in a while he'll get you a good one. Which guy are you going to deal with on a regular basis?
????????
(not arguing but... somehow the connection between coke and publishing climbing mags escapes me...)
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deepplaymedia
May 28, 2007, 8:29 AM
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there are a lot of great photos out there, that doesnt mean the PE's have seen them! if you have a good shot, submit it. how else will it get published?
if it is in fact a fantastic shot, it has a good chance of getting published no matter who took it.
(This post was edited by deepplaymedia on May 28, 2007, 11:04 AM)
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thomasribiere
May 28, 2007, 9:02 AM
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To answer the original question, I think that taking good pics is not enough. Writing an article about a crag or a climber or an event would be a logical addition to a bunch of related good pics. Very often, the pics, beside being good, should include a famous climber to draw some attention.
But if the pics are excellent and deserve a cover or a poster.
These was just some random instant thoughts.
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j_ung
May 28, 2007, 1:17 PM
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madrock wrote: Lots of great photos on the site and floating around with our fellow climbers. Why are there only a small group of photographers who get featured in the Magazines. Are not enough people submiting them for consideration? Joe
That may be some of it. But I think it's more a function of the large number of photos submitted to mags and competing for limited page space. Now refer to Joe's metaphor above.
(Do you look for conspiracies pretty much everywhere or only in regards to climbing?)
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deepplaymedia
May 28, 2007, 1:29 PM
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j_ung; I can't speak for other mags, but my personal experience as a PE is that LOTS of people submit 'almost' shots while only a very small number of people send in 'money' shots- and it seems to be a small group who consistently produce the money shots...
it is true that a working relationship with an ed/PE makes it easier, but only if you are coming up with the goods.
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guangzhou
May 28, 2007, 10:12 PM
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I get my climbing shots published in various magazines on a regular basis. I will agree with one post above, if you write something and have pictures too, that is the best way to get published images.
I don't agree that you need a famous climber in the shot. I think the reason more people don't get published is that good and great photogrpahers often don't think their shots are good enough quality.
I have a few editors as contact and they are always looking for new photos and articles. Unfortunately, many of what they recieve is crap. If you have some great images, submit.
If you realy want to be published, think about other magazines that are not climbing related. My climbing shot have appeared in car magazine, travel publication, insurance publication, and variopus newspapers too. If you really want to publish you photos, buy a copy of Photographer's Market and create a plan plan.
My initial plan was to submit to three publication a week. I just had to find the righ hook for each. It was fun and made me think more about how to shoot photos from a deferent perspective.
(This post was edited by guangzhou on May 28, 2007, 10:17 PM)
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tradmanclimbs
May 29, 2007, 11:39 AM
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I shoot horse shows for a liveing. last thing i want to do on my day off is lugg an SLR arround the cliff. I want to be the one in the pictures not the one takeing them when it comes to climbing......Another point and shoot butt shot is obviously not going to cut it. getting good climbing shots is going to be work. The guys and gals who have the drive to get in the mags are out there working hard and getting it done while the rest of us are playing on the rocks. Shooting famous climbers certainly does help though. You have shots of Dean poaching something or beth sending something you have news. Joe nobody on a 5.7 is going to have to be part of a write up on an area or a human intrest shot.
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camhead
May 29, 2007, 12:29 PM
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for the most part, very good photographers whose work I know from this site (joe, dbrayak, wes allen) eventually do wind up in magazines.
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rc_vinay
May 29, 2007, 1:11 PM
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madrock wrote: Lots of great photos on the site and floating around with our fellow climbers. Why are there only a small group of photographers who get featured in the Magazines. Are not enough people submiting them for consideration? Joe
its simple. i guess they dont have to give money for who posts there precious photos on net.
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dingus
May 29, 2007, 2:02 PM
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To the person who said 'taking a good picture is not enough.'
I totally agree. Used to be GOOD climbing shots were so rare and so unique I'd just about drool over them.
Don't take this the wrong way photogs, but good climbing shots are a dime a dozen these days. Most of them pretty much look the same. Rare do you find something new under the sun.
If I ran a magazine I'd employ my friends and peers and those who helped me come up in that business. I wouldn't, for example, feign democracy or print amateur submissions instead of helping one of my contributors put beans on the table for that month.
Isn't that the way that business works? Its not like Times Warner or something.
DMT
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madrock
May 29, 2007, 8:10 PM
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OK I will "put my money where my mouth is". Mad Rock will publish 3 posters for distribution to our dealers with photos supplied by ?? Well anyone who wants so send one in for selection. We will pay $200 for the use, print 500 copies and give you 40 copies for yourself. Pro photographers can submit also. Photos with Mad Rock products are prefered but it is not required. Please submit a low res. but let me know the actual file size and resolution of the original, details on the climb and climber are also useful.
Send to joe@madrockclimbing.com
Joe
(This post was edited by madrock on May 29, 2007, 8:14 PM)
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