|
adatesman
Jun 21, 2007, 1:25 PM
Post #77 of 84
(1072 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 3479
|
|
|
|
|
|
poomasta
Jun 21, 2007, 1:57 PM
Post #78 of 84
(1064 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 176
|
In light of the thread drift here, I have, what I think to be, a semi-related question. my wife is about 60 lbs lighter than me and will occasionally go flying if i take a good size fall. under certain circumstances, we'll anchor while she belays. the biggest draw back here is the loss of the dynamic belay...and she complains about the whiplash  This is possibly a crazy idea, but what if you included a dynamic link in the anchor, like a high strength bungee cord?
Flame away...
|
|
|
|
|
markc
Jun 21, 2007, 2:09 PM
Post #79 of 84
(1060 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2481
|
adatesman wrote: jt512 wrote: Furthermore, being right up against the wall is usually safer than being away from the base of the wall in terms of avoiding any rockfall, because rocks rarely fall right at the base of the wall; rather, they usually land some distance away from the base, either because the route is overhanging or because the rock takes a bounce off the face. Not to fan the flames, ok, maybe _to_ fan the flames... Jay, you've just been squished. The block did indeed take a bounce off the face, but that only succeeded in creating a _spinning_ multi-ton block hurtling towards the base of the climb. It made quite a mess of the base of the climb, actually. Had you been standing there, well, hopefully your partner brought a mop and squeegie. It did a nice job of clearing out some not-so-small trees a bit further downhill too....
To kick the smoke back towards you: Were a belayer further out from the face it sounds like he would have been taken out, as well. If he gets behind cover, maybe the monster block just takes out the rope and screws the climber. Sometimes doing 'the right thing' doesn't make you any less screwed, especially when dealing with things like fridge-sized blocks. If the rockfall doesn't get you, the shrapnel very well may.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Jun 21, 2007, 4:35 PM
Post #80 of 84
(1020 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
poomasta wrote: In light of the thread drift here, I have, what I think to be, a semi-related question. my wife is about 60 lbs lighter than me and will occasionally go flying if i take a good size fall. under certain circumstances, we'll anchor while she belays. the biggest draw back here is the loss of the dynamic belay...and she complains about the whiplash This is possibly a crazy idea, but what if you included a dynamic link in the anchor, like a high strength bungee cord? Flame away...
You don't need a dynamic link like a bungee cord, you already (should) have one. It's a belay device. You can use a high-friction device, like an ATC-XP (add another biner if it's still not high-enough friction), and an honest-to-goodness dynamic belay. In case you're not familiar with a dynamic belay, the idea is - she purposely does not use enough force with her brake hand to stop you immediately, but uses enough to stop you after some small amount of rope has slid through the device. It's not really that hard to learn, but it's important to practice it a before you need to use it. It does take time to get the feel of it.
Incidentally, I like this method of giving a soft catch better than the other version - jumping (usually done with a gri gri.) I've practiced both enough to be reasonably competent, but I find that the need to time the jump just right with the gri-gri is really difficult (and of course, impossible in your case, since she's anchored). Remember, if you time the jump wrong, you wind up putting *more* force on the falling climber, rather than less.
Best of luck,
GO
|
|
|
|
|
poomasta
Jun 21, 2007, 7:15 PM
Post #81 of 84
(1000 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 176
|
Yeah, I should have clarified: we use a grigri. I've heard of the dynamic belay technique where you allow rope to slide through an ATC, but frankly that scares the hell out of me. I'm fine using an ATC, but I want my belayer to lock that rope off when i fall.
So...questions remains: could you safely rig a belay anchor with a bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay?
(qualificiations: belaying with a grigri, single pitch sport climbs)
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 21, 2007, 7:20 PM
Post #82 of 84
(996 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
markc wrote: jt512 wrote: But I'm convinced of the Pennsylvania gumby phenomenon, and I'm curious about your take on it... Then there are those (perhaps in the majority) that don't warrant defense. They're gumbies that spread dangerous habits like STDs, bringing out all their unfortunate friends in order to 'teach them the ropes'.
And then spread their "wisdom" to the internet, where, perhaps for the first time, they are exposed to a more knowledgeable subset of climbers.
In reply to: As far as the causes...I've considered some of the areas I've visited in comparison with the local crags. SW PA crags may suffer fools more readily than other locations. We have a lot of short crags with easy access, and toproping abounds. It's easy to learn just enough to think you know something. It's not as if there aren't quality guide services and experienced climbers in the area. It's just that the two segments of the population seem to mix about as well as oil and water.
That seems like a viable explanation: an environment in which novice climbers can spend many seasons climbing easy routes requiring little skill or knowledge. Especially if the easy areas are separated from the more advanced areas, you could develop a climbing subpopulation with little opportunity to understand the actual state of their skill level.
Here in SoCal we have our gumbies too, but we either have fewer of them than PA, or they are less vocal on the internet. Our climbing environment is different. We have few dedicated toprope crags. At the vast majority of sport crags, if you want to toprope, someone has to lead the route first. Easy routes tend to be few and far between, and comingled with harder routes. Beginners, rather than being isolated, are in an environment of mixed skill levels in which they are unlikely to develop exaggerated opinions of their abilities. Additionally, because relatively few beginner routes exist, and more challenging routes are usually nearby, beginners are constantly tempted to try harder routes and advance their skills, making it more likely that a beginner will advance rather than fall into a local "gumby-4-lyfe" climbing underclass.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
cortisol
Jun 21, 2007, 8:01 PM
Post #83 of 84
(979 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 9, 2005
Posts: 34
|
In reply to: Then there are those (perhaps in the majority) that don't warrant defense. They're gumbies that spread dangerous habits like STDs, bringing out all their unfortunate friends in order to 'teach them the ropes'. |
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Jun 22, 2007, 12:23 AM
Post #84 of 84
(954 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
poomasta wrote: Yeah, I should have clarified: we use a grigri. I've heard of the dynamic belay technique where you allow rope to slide through an ATC, but frankly that scares the hell out of me. I'm fine using an ATC, but I want my belayer to lock that rope off when i fall. So...questions remains: could you safely rig a belay anchor with a bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay? (qualificiations: belaying with a grigri, single pitch sport climbs)
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay ?
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
bungee cord to provide a dynamic belay
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
