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lena_chita
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Jul 17, 2007, 11:35 PM
Post #1 of 17
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I am talking about this thing:
http://www.experiential-gear.com/...product&id=18672
I am considering getting one for a situation when I can't quite reach the bolt to clip.
Before you tell me to climb higher and clip at my waist, be assured that I know about that.
But in this particular case the bolt was at shoulder level, only way to the side--I could almost touch it with my fingertips, but not clip the draw. The next move would have taken me further away from the bolt, instead of closer to it, and the following move, while going back towards the bolt, resulted in the bolt being at ankle level, so it wasn't an obvious solution to just step a bit higher/closer to the bolt before clipping.
I stood there forever, but couldn't figure out a way to get that bolt clipped, and didn't want to climb to the next bolt without clipping that one b/c of a bad fall potential. I ended up taking an intentional fall from that bolt, let a guy (taller than me) hang that draw, and then had no problem whatsoever leading the route.
I think something like FROG would have helped...
Anybody has one? Use it often? Like it? Pros/cons of using a frog vs. a home-made solution of stiffening a quickdraw?
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drfelatio
Jul 18, 2007, 12:11 AM
Post #2 of 17
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Registered: Sep 16, 2004
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lena_chita wrote: I am talking about this thing: http://www.experiential-gear.com/...product&id=18672 I am considering getting one for a situation when I can't quite reach the bolt to clip. Before you tell me to climb higher and clip at my waist, be assured that I know about that. But in this particular case the bolt was at shoulder level, only way to the side--I could almost touch it with my fingertips, but not clip the draw. The next move would have taken me further away from the bolt, instead of closer to it, and the following move, while going back towards the bolt, resulted in the bolt being at ankle level, so it wasn't an obvious solution to just step a bit higher/closer to the bolt before clipping. I stood there forever, but couldn't figure out a way to get that bolt clipped, and didn't want to climb to the next bolt without clipping that one b/c of a bad fall potential. I ended up taking an intentional fall from that bolt, let a guy (taller than me) hang that draw, and then had no problem whatsoever leading the route. I think something like FROG would have helped... Anybody has one? Use it often? Like it? Pros/cons of using a frog vs. a home-made solution of stiffening a quickdraw?
I've played with one but never climbed with one. To me, they're just gimicky and not really worth it. Plus they're kinda heavy. Go with a homemade solution or figure out another way to reach that bolt.
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 1:16 AM
Post #3 of 17
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Registered: Mar 12, 2003
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Lena From your "shortys rant"
aimeerose wrote: Oh, and for those reachy clips look into getting a Frog made by Kong. You can get at least 6 inches more reach. Or make a stiff draw (but I love my Frog draw).
might send her a note about it
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lena_chita
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Jul 18, 2007, 2:17 PM
Post #4 of 17
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Duh! Thanks jakedatc. I kept thinking that I read about it SOMEWHERE, but couldn't remember where. It's nice to know that someone has a neatly organized brain and a good recall, LOL.
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brokenankle
Jul 18, 2007, 3:09 PM
Post #5 of 17
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I would suggest making one or two stiffies/cheater draws. Ive heard of people placing a bit of vinyl tubing over the dogbone, just enough to gain that extra 6" if you need it. Much cheaper and more multipurpose than a frog.
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bent_gate
Jul 18, 2007, 3:27 PM
Post #6 of 17
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I haven't used one, but my understanding is that the main advantage of the Frog (from a safety standpoint) is that you don't have to worry about orienting the spine of the clipping carabiner in the direction of your climbing path (to prevent accidental unclipping as the top biner rotates as you pass).
I'm not really sure it will give you any extra reach over a carabiner draw. In fact, unless the hanger is vertically pointing toward you, you would have to twist your wrist to clip in the device.
Frog vs. Carabiner
It works well in the above orientation, but if you are coming from the side, you will have to twist your wrist around to clip it from underneath with the Frog.
Some people specifically carry a stiff quickdraw or two, so they can hold them lower and get more reach. The Petzl dogbones are the stiffest ones out there, you can buy just the nylon for a draw or two.
The heavy stitching makes it stiff, but some people then wrap it with tape to make it even more stiff.
And a final option is what some trad and aid climbers do. (Mainly to place nuts in spots that are out of reach). For nuts, you place the head of the nut on top of the "heal" of the nut tool.
The wire runs down the nut tool, and you hold both the wire and the nut tool together at the bottom. Or even put your finger through the bottom of the nut tool and the bottom of the wire, holding tension as you reach and place the nut.
You could try the same with quickdraw. You would still need a pretty stiff draw to keep the top biner from turning, but you could use a nut tool underneath the top biner and hold the draw and nut tool on the bottom.
I've done it with the nuts before. Ah, the games we play with ourselves to call it a free ascent!
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caughtinside
Jul 18, 2007, 3:51 PM
Post #7 of 17
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bent_gate wrote: I haven't used one, but my understanding is that the main advantage of the Frog (from a safety standpoint) is that you don't have to worry about orienting the spine of the clipping carabiner in the direction of your climbing path (to prevent accidental unclipping as the top biner rotates as you pass). I'm not really sure it will give you any extra reach over a carabiner draw. In fact, unless the hanger is vertically pointing toward you, you would have to twist your wrist to clip in the device. Frog vs. Carabiner [image]http://www.kong.it/doc/frogcomp.gif[/image] It works well in the above orientation, but if you are coming from the side, you will have to twist your wrist around to clip it from underneath with the Frog.
This isn't true. You can clip the frog into the hanger from any direction without having to do any theoretical wrist bending. And you do get several more inches of reach with the Frog.
I think it's a great tool for shorter climbers.
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wmfork
Jul 18, 2007, 4:17 PM
Post #8 of 17
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I've played with one... The one annoying thing is you do have to cock the "biner" before clipping it. (pre-cocking it open on the ground invariably ends up getting closed when you need it).
It does help when a route is inconsiderately bolted. But that's why you should climb trad, right?
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bent_gate
Jul 19, 2007, 4:08 AM
Post #9 of 17
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wmfork wrote: I've played with one... The one annoying thing is you do have to cock the "biner" before clipping it. (pre-cocking it open on the ground invariably ends up getting closed when you need it)...
Which brings another question I've been wondering. How do you rack it on your gear loops? Do you clip the Frog part to your gear loops, or do you clip the biner side?
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knieveltech
Jul 19, 2007, 4:40 AM
Post #10 of 17
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If you do end up getting one of these things, get a high-powered slingshot to go with it. Why stick-clip the first bolt on a route when with a little practice you can clip the 2nd or 3rd?
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8flood8
Jul 19, 2007, 5:08 AM
Post #11 of 17
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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i have a friend who LOVES her stiffies.
this is how she made them.
she got a length of pvc pipe (probably quarter - half inch diameter)
unclip one biner from the dogbone, put the dogbone through the pipe and re-clip the biner. If you don't get the length perfectly right you will have to add tape to keep the biner from flopping down on your new stiffy draw; however they work really well, even if you put it onto one of those long ass dogbones, you can get almost a full 12 extra reach.
my question/concern about the frog is that what happens if you accidentally don't push it all the way onto the hanger... when you are at that REALLY hard clip... and then that thing snaps shut on you... are you really going to have the juice to re-open the frog?
don't get me wrong i love the creativity and ingenuity, but i'm skeptical -- hopefully it works for you if you buy one!!
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lena_chita
Moderator
Jul 19, 2007, 4:58 PM
Post #12 of 17
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knieveltech wrote: If you do end up getting one of these things, get a high-powered slingshot to go with it. Why stick-clip the first bolt on a route when with a little practice you can clip the 2nd or 3rd?
Hmm... did I say anything about stick-clipping? I don't recall it. But your sligshot can't be all THAT high-powered. I could go directly for the top anchors instead of just the 2nd or 3rd bolt when I use a really powerful model...
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knieveltech
Jul 19, 2007, 5:05 PM
Post #13 of 17
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lena_chita wrote: knieveltech wrote: If you do end up getting one of these things, get a high-powered slingshot to go with it. Why stick-clip the first bolt on a route when with a little practice you can clip the 2nd or 3rd? Hmm... did I say anything about stick-clipping? I don't recall it. But your sligshot can't be all THAT high-powered. I could go directly for the top anchors instead of just the 2nd or 3rd bolt when I use a really powerful model...
Yeah the whole stick-clipping aspect is totally OT, but kinda funny. With the right kind of launcher, *bang* instant toprope. 
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mitchgripgrabber
Jul 19, 2007, 5:34 PM
Post #14 of 17
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Registered: Mar 14, 2006
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I think it is a great idea. I would cut it off of the sling it comes with put in a new 12 in sling maybe 13 get a flexible 12 in In reply to: ruler or something similar tape it tight with the other biner on of course. I have some thing similar that has a old austral alpine biner that locks open until you hook something. To bad the beiners are near iposssiblle to get cuz it works great. If you can find one let me know
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jakedatc
Jul 19, 2007, 7:54 PM
Post #15 of 17
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haha "The Genius" biner?
tip for those.. dont use them for the rope side.. especially if you like "backhanded" clips.. when you have a finger in the bottom of the biner and flick the rope in haha locks right up and you can't clip ;)
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mitchgripgrabber
Jul 19, 2007, 8:00 PM
Post #16 of 17
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yes the "genius" i have never used it on the rope end but for grabbing far away bolts and draws and dogging up a route it can't be beat
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vertical_planar
Jul 25, 2007, 6:24 AM
Post #17 of 17
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Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 320
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I have used one a few times on a specific route where cliping is very hard otherwise . It works fine. Just go and buy one. Worst thing that can happen is that you have an extra QD in your rack
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