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dingus
Aug 1, 2007, 6:41 PM
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I wonder how many grossly obese children there are in Stolby? I wonder if a Stolbyist, upon seeing what Americans are doing to their children, have similar conversations as these?
"Look at what those fat fucking American kids."
"They'll NEVER get off the ground!"
DMT
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Basta916
Aug 1, 2007, 7:16 PM
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nivlac wrote: Is that what happened? That sounds like a major fucktard thing to say.
HUH???? all that happened was imaginary solo climb.....soooo relax
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nivlac
Aug 1, 2007, 7:21 PM
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Basta916 wrote: scrambled_legs wrote: Wow Basta that's a great story about your Grandpa, use your imagination, live your life, enjoy it and let others do the same as long as they are happy with what they do and not hurting you or others....that being said I believe no one is pushing anyone off the cliff in that video....have a great day....( oh yea, try traveling...and not like a group of missionaries South Koreans in Afganistan...they didnt mind there business, they were pushing there believes on wrong people )
Oops, I was referring to the above quote. Quote button didn't work last time. A couple of those South Koreans are dead with more likely to be killed and you're implying they deserve it? They were on a medical mission, btw.
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Basta916
Aug 1, 2007, 8:16 PM
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nivlac wrote: Basta916 wrote: scrambled_legs wrote: Wow Basta that's a great story about your Grandpa, use your imagination, live your life, enjoy it and let others do the same as long as they are happy with what they do and not hurting you or others....that being said I believe no one is pushing anyone off the cliff in that video....have a great day....( oh yea, try traveling...and not like a group of missionaries South Koreans in Afganistan...they didnt mind there business, they were pushing there believes on wrong people ) Oops, I was referring to the above quote. Quote button didn't work last time. A couple of those South Koreans are dead with more likely to be killed and you're implying they deserve it? They were on a medical mission, btw.
and again, HUH? medical mission??????? well only news I read on Yahoo said they where Catholic Missionaries (no medicine, just religion)...now I would NOT say they deserve to die....but Afganistan isnt best place for religious work right now...and that was a point, and if you dont mind where did you read they were Medical and not Religious group
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nivlac
Aug 1, 2007, 8:34 PM
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Basta916 wrote: nivlac wrote: Basta916 wrote: scrambled_legs wrote: Wow Basta that's a great story about your Grandpa, use your imagination, live your life, enjoy it and let others do the same as long as they are happy with what they do and not hurting you or others....that being said I believe no one is pushing anyone off the cliff in that video....have a great day....( oh yea, try traveling...and not like a group of missionaries South Koreans in Afganistan...they didnt mind there business, they were pushing there believes on wrong people ) Oops, I was referring to the above quote. Quote button didn't work last time. A couple of those South Koreans are dead with more likely to be killed and you're implying they deserve it? They were on a medical mission, btw. Ohh now it makes more sense. and again, HUH? medical mission??????? well only news I read on Yahoo said they where Catholic Missionaries (no medicine, just religion)...now I would NOT say they deserve to die....but Afganistan isnt best place for religious work right now...and that was a point, and if you dont mind where did you read they were Medical and not Religious group
Here's one: http://www.ctv.ca/...0725?hub=CTVNewsAt11
see line that they are aid workers. It's not clear what their official status is, but news reports are focusing on the group being part of a church, regardless of what they're actually doing in the country. Most reports strongly indicate they are part of medical or other aid missions to the country. They were riding in a bus when they were captured, not preaching in the streets.
Here's another: http://news.yahoo.com/..._hostages_familes_dc
Your language indicated that they were getting what they deserved for "not minding there (sic) business." You want to clarify your statement then? And show me the news links verifying they were doing something that justified this treatment? Your point, while duly noted, was poorly made.
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Basta916
Aug 1, 2007, 9:13 PM
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this is of the OP original post subject....
Mind you that you are referring to a couple days old post.....at the time there was no news about them being AID....
Now let me clarify that any act of terror should be punished, and who ever did harm to them should in my opinion get same ( I do strongly support Death Penalty, and not in ten-twenty years....more like today)
On the other hand People really need to take responsibilities for there own decisions and actions....going to a war zone isnt a picnic, and bad things can happen ( let me say I was shot twice in war areas )
now you said "it is not clear what their official status is"
So you dont know. No do I. But you have to agree that Afganistan isnt a best country for Church vacation right now. Don'f forget how many people a trying to get them out, and risking there lives doing so. And let me say again..........IF they are Church Related group (in any way) They shouldn't be There...
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nivlac
Aug 1, 2007, 9:27 PM
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Basta916 wrote: this is of the OP original post subject.... Mind you that you are referring to a couple days old post.....at the time there was no news about them being AID.... Now let me clarify that any act of terror should be punished, and who ever did harm to them should in my opinion get same ( I do strongly support Death Penalty, and not in ten-twenty years....more like today) On the other hand People really need to take responsibilities for there own decisions and actions....going to a war zone isnt a picnic, and bad things can happen ( let me say I was shot twice in war areas ) now you said "it is not clear what their official status is" So you dont know. No do I. But you have to agree that Afganistan isnt a best country for Church vacation right now. Don'f forget how many people a trying to get them out, and risking there lives doing so. And let me say again..........IF they are Church Related group (in any way) They shouldn't be There...
What I do or don't know about their official status is completely irrelevant. Various aid groups are in the country, helping as best as they know how. Some are religiously affiliated, some are not. That affiliation has nothing to do with whether they should be there or not.
I do agree they bear personal responsibility for going into a war zone and who knows if they realistically evaluated the dangers associated with their actions, but again, that has nothing to do with your original post about minding their own business. You saw they were from a church and automatically assumed they were preaching the gospel on every street corner instead of doing something worthwhile, like volunteering on an aid mission.
Also, to imply they are on some idiotic Church Vacation ("gee, let's go to Afghanistan for kicks.") is insulting. Christians, Muslims and Atheists all go on aid missions around the world. Why does it become a "Church vacation" just because these volunteers came from a church? Are Red Cross Disaster Relief people on some stupid Red Cross vacation everytime they head into a disaster zone?
I'll leave it at that. Not trying to insult you personally, and no hard feelings.
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drm1st
Aug 1, 2007, 9:37 PM
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scrambled_legs wrote: drm1st wrote: We are trying to convince scrambled legs to get us all tickets.  So here's the deal. I need people that are accomplished free soloists. They need to be able to relate to the Stolbists in order to have a convincing discussion with the parents. So I'll be waiting on the top of Astroman and whoever comes over the top with no rope and a save the children t-shirt, gets a ticket. On a serious note, I wonder how many of you would change your viewpoint after watching a kid splatter on the rocks in front of you.
I think Zeke & i chased off the one person even close to possibly doing that in this forum ...Werner....We decided he was a black bear anyways, so I guess he wouldn't count.
Anyways, On the other hand, I hope you realize, no one is disputing the fact that it is sad to see any type of tragic death. But I think you also realize that it's not just that issue you are adressing so it's not as simple as you are summing it up to be.
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Basta916
Aug 1, 2007, 9:47 PM
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OK
I see You and I live on different planets....thats cool
I think Religion is a personal thing....so keep it personal.... and Christian, Muslim or any other mission is about showing how Their religion is "soooo nice, so people should join"
and to end. do you know what kind of nightmare (when in area where not welcome) that kind of mission is to a security personal?????
and please dont tell me its not about promoting GOD....
now.....do you know any good climbs????
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nivlac
Aug 1, 2007, 9:55 PM
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Basta916 wrote: OK I see You and I live on different planets....thats cool I think Religion is a personal thing....so keep it personal.... and Christian, Muslim or any other mission is about showing how Their religion is "soooo nice, so people should join" and to end. do you know what kind of nightmare (when in area where not welcome) that kind of mission is to a security personal????? and please dont tell me its not about promoting GOD.... now.....do you know any good climbs????
I won't tell you anything, since we live on different planets. Universal translator doesn't work on this forum. As for good climbs, I know several, but none in Michigan, unfortunately.
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Basta916
Aug 1, 2007, 10:04 PM
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there aren't any climbs in Michigan...I have to drive 5-6 hours to RRG....it gives me enough time to think about God
You are actually a guy/girl that takes a stand, and thats a plus.
Have a fun climbing those non Michigan good ones
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bob_54b
Aug 2, 2007, 5:47 PM
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now you know why the Soviets destroyed the Nazis.
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mikitta
Aug 2, 2007, 9:15 PM
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The Soviets defeated the Nazis because the Nazis underestimated the Russian winter and stretched their own supply lines too thin :) The Soviets just holed up and watch the freezing and the starvation.
Well, not EXACTLY what happened. They would have all been better off calling off the war and soloing at Stolby.
God Bless,
mik
(This post was edited by mikitta on Aug 2, 2007, 9:33 PM)
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kostik
Aug 7, 2007, 4:08 PM
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While free soloing is Stolby's trademark, there are several bolted routes in the area up to 5.12 (slab). Also, there won't be any problem if you bring your trad rack with you. The Stolbists will probably be very curious about your cams, that's all. They don't object ropes. On the contrary, it is normal on Stolby to practice a route on a toprope before soloing it. The locals are in general very helpful and offer to belay the newcomers and their children.
My aunt went climbing to Stolby in 80's. They had competitions then. All roped.
It is true that 18 or so people die every year on Stolby. Many of them are not climbers, but just local drunks or people who are not supposed to be there. The kid who died in front of the group who made the movie fell while jumping from one rock to another in the rain with a heavy backpack.
Personally, I don't approve free soloing. Many climbers in Russia think that the Stolbists are crazy. I specifically told my 4 y.o. daughter not to climb the refrigerator when I am not around to spot her. Still, I know she does it anyway when I am not watching. I feel nervous when she does crazy things on the playground. A thought that she gets a driver's license in 16 is a source of my nightmares. I guess, the right thing to do would be to teach her to climb safely and properly.
I've read many Stolbist's stories. In one of them a 10 y.o. girl was free-soloing with her Mom and Dad. Both of them very strong climbers, 5.13 level or so. When they were half-way up, some guy fell to his death on a route next to theirs. The girl panicked and got stuck. She could not move either up or down. Her mother told her, 'People die every day. The only difference is that this time it happened in front of your eyes.' The girl calmed herself down and finished the route. She is now 17, won a bunch of competitions in Europe and onsighted four 5.13b (sport, roped).
I know that I will never ever do this to my child. However, I respect their attitude.
Another story was how Vlad Teplyh was FAing his 'Teplyh's Loop'. He'd practiced it many times on a toprope. Another Stolbist, the bad guy, became envious. Once Teplyh found that an invisible crux hold around the corner was smeared with oil. Thankfully, he was on a toprope at that time. Eventually, he free soloed the route which was probably a 5.12+ slab. The bad guy wanted to prove himself too. He did a handstand on the brim of a 100 ft rock. A gust of wind, and he sailed into abyss to his death. One can make a movie based on these stories. Teplyh's Loop has been repeated only once since.
(This post was edited by kostik on Aug 7, 2007, 6:22 PM)
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thomasribiere
Aug 7, 2007, 6:03 PM
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Great post, kostik.
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kostik
Aug 7, 2007, 8:55 PM
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Thanks thomasribiere,
When stolbism developed in 1850-1910 they were not aware of terms like bouldering or highball. So, they invented their own. My favorite is 'hitrushka' - a bouldering problem, which means something like 'smarty' - you have to be smart to solve it. Their term for route is 'hod' - which means 'a move', like chess move. 'Katushka' (a roller) means slab.
5.10 was not around when they started to use rubber galoshes tied with strings. To make the rubber sticky they smeared it with soldering rosin. A Stolbist carried a piece of rosin in his mouth or pocket during climbing to rub his galoshes once in a while when he had a chance.
My Aunt tried to teach me rock climbing (unsuccessfully) when I was 10. She made me wear these galoshes. They looked weird. I hated them. They were one of the reasons I did not take up climbing when I was a kid.
(This post was edited by kostik on Aug 7, 2007, 8:56 PM)
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bbirtle
Aug 8, 2007, 8:37 AM
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Thanks for the link. It was more than enough morning entertainment to wake me up before work.
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dingus
Aug 8, 2007, 10:50 AM
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Cheers kostik that was very much appreciated.
DMT
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mheyman
Aug 8, 2007, 5:02 PM
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In reply to: You're actually defending suicide as an acceptable action???
Absolutely, it's your own life.
Added:
Now that I’ve gotten this far, thank you very much Kostik. The video producers would have done well to be as informative as you have been. They seem to say that ropes are "never used at Stolby. Their piece would have been more interesting as well.
(This post was edited by mheyman on Aug 9, 2007, 3:55 AM)
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zeke_sf
Aug 8, 2007, 6:45 PM
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mheyman wrote: In reply to: You're actually defending suicide as an acceptable action??? Absolutely, it's your own life.
Doesn't suicide obviate acceptance?
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stymingersfink
Aug 8, 2007, 11:54 PM
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mheyman wrote: In reply to: You're actually defending suicide as an acceptable action??? Absolutely, it's your own life.
For some people, I actually PROMOTE it!
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markc
Aug 9, 2007, 2:20 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: mheyman wrote: In reply to: You're actually defending suicide as an acceptable action??? Absolutely, it's your own life. For some people, I actually PROMOTE it!
I know it's a tangent, but what the hell.
I'm saddened by suicide when it's obviously someone in distress due to an addiction, a mental health issue, or the like. While their situation may seem helpless, some can get better with sufficient time and resources. Some reach a point where death seems easier and more welcoming than life. While some may say suicide is selfish and shortsighted, I doubt it's an easy decision for most to make. I have to feel some sympathy in addition to any feelings of anger or frustration.
In terms of euthanasia for medical reasons, I fully support it. Caring for the infirm can be a long and painful process. If you become the caretaker for a relative, you do so at the sacrifice of a large portion of your life. Those in professional facilities often have a quality of life I don't envy, and the cost of that care can be crippling. I only hope that I have sufficient awareness and the means to end my life on my own terms when the time comes.
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jogglp
Aug 9, 2007, 4:33 PM
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.....I explained that in the western world we are obsessed......not to be picky but this is a US, Canada phenomenon, nobody in (western) europe would be concerned if you do crazy shit....your life your call, you decide & take responsibility for your actions...being here on the other side of the pond now for 7 years I always get the feeling somebody wants to take away that responsibility from me & make my choices for me.....or in return blames poor choices to general circumstances when in reality your choice was a bad one. especially when it comes to "dangerous stuff" viewed by the common public.....
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dingus
Aug 9, 2007, 8:47 PM
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There are those who feel YOU shouldn't do something because they can't do it.
You see that sort on this board all the time.
Mother Hen types, clucking over noobs.
DON'T CODDLE THE NOOBS!
DMT
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notapplicable
Aug 9, 2007, 11:10 PM
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dingus wrote: DON'T CODDLE THE NOOBS! DMT
EUTHANIZE THEM!
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