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NSFW
Aug 20, 2007, 5:40 PM
Post #26 of 108
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reg wrote: climbxclimb wrote: Yesterday, me and 3 more friends were climbing on High E, split in 2 parties. I carried all my rack with me while I was leading, my friend, who was leading for the other rope, decided to leave some stuff on the ground, mostly big cams. that's understandable - wonder: if they wern't needed why not leave um at home?
That’s really not the point, is it? I suppose I might wonder about the intelligence of leaving a couple of full racks sitting at the base, but a few cams? Happens all the time; and should happen, without incidence. You can’t tell me you’ve never left gear at the base of a climb.
Besides, the rest of the non-climbing gear isn’t trivial either. Most climbers have a sizable investment in their backpacks, down jackets, fleeces, gloves, hiking shoes, and who knows what else that you might leave at the base. Even if their resale value isn’t huge, who wants to go replace all that stuff?
Anyone want to go in on a bulk shipment of Black Mambas? We might be able to save some cash. Hmmm, wonder if Black Diamond would capitalize on this idea: BD Mambas, has a nice ring to it. Then again, I’m sure they’d charge way too much for it.
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dalguard
Aug 20, 2007, 5:53 PM
Post #28 of 108
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There had to have been a fairly short period of time when there weren't climbers around the base. My partner and I were the people on Doubleissima. I would imagine you still had at least one person near the ground when we got there plus the second on Directissima was just reaching the first belay when we arrived.
My partner was then on the ground for a long time since I led the first two pitches as one and I led them very, very slowly. Of course, he couldn't see around the corner to High E but he would have noticed a gang of urban youths and anyone checking to see if someone was watching them steal gear would have noticed him.
By the time he was leaving the ground, the people on Directissima, who were nice, friendly people and obviously experienced climbers, were starting to rap.
Then there wasn't much time between them rapping down and your group starting to rap. That's not even accounting for whatever was going on on Modern Times. There just wasn't much time when the base was unattended. That makes me hopeful it was accidental.
High E is a long way to walk to steal gear and a crowded area to risk doing it in.
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reg
Aug 20, 2007, 6:09 PM
Post #29 of 108
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kimmyt wrote: you know, i hate that i made that stereotype as well.
i wouldn't feel so bad about "profiling". we do it naturally - there's nothing wrong with it - we do it to protect ourselves! we all should listen to our subconsious more often and not let our "minds" get in the way - "close your eyes so you may see"!
kimmyt wrote: if i could see those kids and they would tell me they didn't do it, i would apologize for my asumption....
might they lie to you?
MHO - R
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data118
Aug 20, 2007, 6:31 PM
Post #30 of 108
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I saw 2 hoodlum looking (oversize t-shirts, long denim shorts) characters by the Guide Wall on the first ledge. No harness or climbing shoes. I only noticed them because the were knocking pebbles down like rain and were loud. They eventually came down and joined their buddies on the carriage road. When we were leaving and the Rangers told us about the stolen gear, we just looked at each other thinking the same thing. Coincidence...maybe.
It wasn't so much what they were dressed like but rather how they were acting.
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wideguy
Aug 20, 2007, 6:49 PM
Post #32 of 108
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NSFW wrote: wideguy wrote: Don't underestimate the intelligence of thieves. Climbers are not the only people who would research and know the value of all sorts of things. Professional crooks do their homework. Nor would they be above disguising themselves as climbers and brazenly going through a pack in broad daylight. Seems like you know a lot about this dark underworld. Hmmmmm. 
I may have fractured a law or two in my younger years....
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data118
Aug 20, 2007, 7:06 PM
Post #33 of 108
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NSFW wrote: data118 wrote: I saw 2 hoodlum looking (oversize t-shirts, long denim shorts) characters by the Guide Wall on the first ledge. No harness or climbing shoes. I only noticed them because the were knocking pebbles down like rain and were loud. They eventually came down and joined their buddies on the carriage road. When we were leaving and the Rangers told us about the stolen gear, we just looked at each other thinking the same thing. Coincidence...maybe. We're they black? I bet you they did it.  |
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cadaverchris
Aug 20, 2007, 7:31 PM
Post #34 of 108
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kimmyt,
my first post was a bit harsh - and your further clarification revealed that you were just illuminating something out of the ordinary.
sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.
to the OP - keep an eye on CRAIGSLIST.org too!!!
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climbingbetty22
Aug 20, 2007, 7:55 PM
Post #35 of 108
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So sorry to hear about your gear, I saw the post on the kiosk at the Uberfall. That sucks man. I am really hoping that this was just an honest mistake. I have to: I climb at the Gunks every weekend and routinely leave gear at the base. I prefer to keep mine in my pack though...less temptation I hope. I could see though where some climbers were busy talking, got distracted and just accidnetly picked up some gear and shoved in their packs. Of course, I could see kimmyt's scenario, some kids are up at the cliff more or less unsupervised, they see these cool things laying at the base of the climb; the same things that they have seen many of the climbers along the carriage road wearing on their harness, perhaps without knowing how important they are to their owner, they merely thought they were taking home a neat souvenier to show off to their friends.
No matter what the scenario, I will keep my eyes and ears open for anyone who might have seen or heard anything. I hope that they cams are quickly returned to their owner!!!
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happiegrrrl
Aug 20, 2007, 8:35 PM
Post #36 of 108
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<Off Topic Rant>
well, there's something to be said for being tidy....
I see, every weekend, yardsale scenarios all along the cliff trails. Groups of people throw their packs down wherever they please, not considering they are putting them in the middle of the trail.... Then the shoes go somewhere else, and jackets yet somewhere else! Multiple times 3 and you've got a...mess.
I'm not suggesting that the OP and his group did this - just that it's all too common.
It might be nice to acknowledge that we aren't the only ones using a particular slice of trail for the however long we have our crap strewn about, and act accordingly.
By placing our crap IN our packs, closing them up even nominally, and setting them out of the trail(yet still in plain sight so as not to offer opportunity for an atmosphere of control rather than chaos. Someone walking by won't think "hmmmm....no one will notice, at least for a while, that something's amiss").
Seconds - Instead of leaving the rope tarp at the route base when the rope's been pulled up, stow it away with the rest of your gear.
Someone walking by won't get an eyeful of stuff left unsupervised, and it also reatins - if only a tiny bit - an air of being ....in nature.
I really get peeved when I see shit strewn all over in the trail(including people, who often don't think to move when someone is in need of passing through). Not only does it lend to the gym-like atmosphere but it escalates erosion as passersby have to walk off-trail to go around.
</Off Topic Rant>
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ckirkwood9
Aug 20, 2007, 8:41 PM
Post #37 of 108
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Hey guys sorry to hear about aholes pilfering gear.
just to add to the info: i had an easy day with 2 fledgling climbers... led the 2 up a climb (that i'm forgetting the name of) in the neighborhood of belly roll - then set up a TR off one of the trees with a 2-cam backup equalized with the tree.
fast forward, i rapped down, then belayed my 2 climbers, then i took a run up. when i topped out there there were 4 or 5 youngish guys (prob 17-22)who didn't look like climbers or hikers (they def weren't dressed the part) - I don't remember too much about them other than the fact that they looked WAY out of place and they were really close to my anchor.
As i topped out, they all looked startled and said "uhhh hey... there's a climber who just came up" (or something to that affect) then the guy asked me about how much weight the cams would hold.
SO... these may be the same guys mentioned earlier in the post.
of course it could be that they were just curious hikers who saw my bright orange rope and decided to take a look, but their reaction seemed strange. i mean it's a climber's paradise.... if they were hiking along the ridge, it wouldn't be strange to see a climber topping out.
so, what does this all mean... not much... just adding to the mystery.
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kimgraves
Aug 20, 2007, 10:37 PM
Post #38 of 108
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kimmyt wrote: a group of 5 urban-looking kids were walking along the cliff base. Now, i hate to make assumptions, but these kids did not look like the type to take a casual stroll,,, K.
I call foul!
I see NO purpose in this sort of accusation. No one saw who took the gear. So this sort or accusation doesn't help get the gear back. It doesn't help identify who stole it. It doesn't serve any purpose that I can see other than to stereotype people. I just don't understand what the goal for doing this is.
You can't rationalize this sort of speech by saying you "hate to make the accusation" or "I was just noticing something out of the ordinary." It's stereotyping no matter what your intentions were.
Shame.
Kim Graves
(This post was edited by kimgraves on Aug 20, 2007, 11:07 PM)
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Pdizz
Aug 20, 2007, 11:20 PM
Post #39 of 108
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whats so wrong with stereotyping
its fun
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gunkjunkie
Aug 20, 2007, 11:21 PM
Post #40 of 108
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To the OP, I hope you get your gear back.
I am a bit disturbed by the reaction to the "urban youth" who looked out of place comment. The "urban youth" term sounds coded and loaded with deeper meanings and I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that it wasn't referring to rich yuppies from the Upper East Side. It seems to me that if the kids paid their day pass fee, they had as much right to be any where on the preserve as anyone else.
I also believe that there was a case of a climber who was banned from the Gunks for stealing gear.
Deirdre
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kimgraves
Aug 20, 2007, 11:51 PM
Post #41 of 108
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Pdizz wrote: whats so wrong with stereotyping its fun
What's wrong with it?
It's hate speech.
It's been (and continues to be) acceptable to "have fun" at the expense of women, African Americans, Polish descendants, the Jewish, the Irish, the Catholics, not to mention people from Arizona. Stereotyping is hateful speech. You can't rationalize it away as anything other than that.
Kim Graves
(This post was edited by kimgraves on Aug 21, 2007, 3:28 AM)
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napoleon_in_rags
Aug 21, 2007, 12:08 AM
Post #42 of 108
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Something similiar happened to me at Ragged Mt, CT a few weeks ago. I led a 5.6, topped out, and belayed my partner, Steph, up. Steph is an amazingly good sport climber but has only recently took up Trad. She is still nervous about anchor building and, because it can be tricky to find placements there, we decided to leave the anchor built when she led it.
We hike down in about 5 minutes, and she racked up and climbed the route. When she got to the top... NO ANCHOR!!!!
It was less than 30 minutes between us leaving the anchor to when she topped out (As I said, she is a really strong climber and its a really easy route).
It killed our day. We talked to all the climbers who are or were in the area. But I can't see a climber pulling 2 chocks and a Cam that are equalized with a cordalette without at least yelling around a bit. We put up flyers on all the cars in both parking lots and talked to everyone we could meet and no one had seen anything.
Now me and Steph remember 4 non-outdoorsy (AKA Urban) kids around at the top of the climb. We saw them later at the trailhead and, I swear to god, one of them wouldn't make eye contact with me.
Me and Steph wanted to search them but we figured we would get in trouble. Maybe these kids were at the Gunks last weekend...
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NSFW
Aug 21, 2007, 12:19 AM
Post #43 of 108
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Registered: Jul 25, 2007
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kimgraves wrote: Pdizz wrote: whats so wrong with stereotyping its fun What's wrong with it? It's hate speech. It's been (and continues to be) acceptable to "have fun" at the expense of women, African Americans, Polish descendants, the Jewish, the Irish, the Catholics. Stereotyping is hateful speech. You can't rationalize it away as anything other than that. Kim Graves
Stereotyping is bullshit, it’s a tool of the weak and thoughtless. I blame it on the Polish, but really they don’t know any better; not the brightest of people. The African Americans fought to ban these stereotypes, but didn’t have the money to support the cause, and God knows the Jewish weren’t going to pitch in. Me? I’m just a poor Irishman, too drunk to do anything about it. I spend my days at the bottom of the bottle trying to forget about my childhood experiences within the Roman Catholic church. Eight-year olds dude.
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ClusterFock
Aug 21, 2007, 6:04 AM
Post #45 of 108
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Yeah, he should have gone on about the Irish women doing nothing but squeezing out more kids and taking the abuse dished out by their drunken husbands.
Good 'ole Irish.
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bent_gate
Aug 21, 2007, 6:20 AM
Post #46 of 108
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Does "Dirtbag Climber" count as a stereotype? Cause they get blamed for doing all types of stuff.
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dalguard
Aug 21, 2007, 2:44 PM
Post #47 of 108
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I really think the urban youths are a red herring. They weren't seen anywhere near as far down as High E and none of those of us who were in the High E area saw them.
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gunkjunkie
Aug 21, 2007, 2:49 PM
Post #48 of 108
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This idea of "urban youth" that has been discussed here is a perfect illustration of the concept of white privilege. Being white means that you can go pretty much anywhere without problems - no questions asked. No one will look at you funny or count the spoons, cams etc after you have gone. This has been cited as one reason why African-Americans don't go hiking, climbing etc. After all would you want to go to places where you are not wanted and have to experience being stared at and groundlessly accused of theft as a form of recreation? I guess that we have to add a new category to the list of things you shouldn't do while black. No driving while black, no shopping while black and now no hiking while black. 
African-Americans do live in New Paltz and the surrounding area and as surprising as it may be they also live in the area surrounding Ragged Mountain. These kids may have just been out hiking in their own neighborhood.
Deirdre
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reg
Aug 21, 2007, 3:00 PM
Post #49 of 108
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kimgraves wrote: You can't rationalize this sort of speech by saying you "hate to make the accusation" or "I was just noticing something out of the ordinary." It's stereotyping no matter what your intentions were. Shame. Kim Graves
kim - u don't look at some poeple with a questioning eye? your gut doesn't say something's wrong when you see certain individuals? if you ignor your natural ability to sence trouble then it will more easily find you.
(This post was edited by reg on Aug 21, 2007, 3:03 PM)
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cracklover
Aug 21, 2007, 3:09 PM
Post #50 of 108
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gunkjunkie wrote: This idea of "urban youth" that has been discussed here is a perfect illustration of the concept of white privilege. Being white means that you can go pretty much anywhere without problems - no questions asked. No one will look at you funny or count the spoons, cams etc after you have gone. This has been cited as one reason why African-Americans don't go hiking, climbing etc. After all would you want to go to places where you are not wanted and have to experience being stared at and groundlessly accused of theft as a form of recreation? I guess that we have to add a new category to the list of things you shouldn't do while black. No driving while black, no shopping while black and now no hiking while black. African-Americans do live in New Paltz and the surrounding area and as surprising as it may be they also live in the area surrounding Ragged Mountain. These kids may have just been out hiking in their own neighborhood. Deirdre
Deirdre - the people referenced above were white. Work on your reading comprehension.
GO
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