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tradmanclimbs
Sep 24, 2007, 2:24 PM
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As a long time boy scout how many days have you lived off the land with just the clothes on your back and your wits? This kid survived for years this way.
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dingus
Sep 24, 2007, 2:43 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: As a long time boy scout how many days have you lived off the land with just the clothes on your back and your wits? This kid survived for years this way. The only Eagle scout I still know free climbed Astroman in 1984, did FAs in the Himilaya and has more free ascents of hard American climbs than most of us. Never heard him pray to god once either. But that kid DID NOT live off the land. He died off the land. He only lasted as long as he did due to the kindness of strangers. DMT
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 24, 2007, 2:57 PM
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I did read the book. It was a few years ago but as i recall he worked from time to time to get supplies. I don't recall reading about him being a panhandeler? How many of you guys have lived half a year on a bag of rice and forraging edible plants? I was pretty impressed by some of those traveles. Heck that is what chiounard used to do. By a bag of potatoes and then hit the road.
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quiteatingmysteak
Sep 24, 2007, 3:31 PM
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In the book "Eiger Dreams" by Krakaur there is a short story about his own trip to Alaska. May give some insight to why people do what our uncles and aunts, sitting in RV' s and watching O'Reilly, do things that just don't add up to common sense. Anyone walking by El Cap Bridge will hear it said over and over by the sensible few... "You guys are stupid and going to die." Die young or old and fat, having not, in the zen sense of the word, 'lived'? Take your pick, Krakaur took his.
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roy_hinkley_jr
Sep 24, 2007, 3:32 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: The botany book that listed a poisionous plant as edible was huge! False. Krakauer dreamed this theory up to make the kid less foolish. But it was discredited by researchers who tested all the plants. All edible and non-toxic.
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keyless
Sep 24, 2007, 4:21 PM
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quiteatingmysteak wrote: In the book "Eiger Dreams" by Krakaur there is a short story about his own trip to Alaska. May give some insight to why people do what our uncles and aunts, sitting in RV' s and watching O'Reilly, do things that just don't add up to common sense. Anyone walking by El Cap Bridge will hear it said over and over by the sensible few... "You guys are stupid and going to die." Die young or old and fat, having not, in the zen sense of the word, 'lived'? Take your pick, Krakaur took his. Yeah, I've read that story, so it was pretty annoying to see it reprinted in Into the Wild. Although I agree with everyone that the tent scene was hilarious.
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btreanor
Sep 24, 2007, 6:54 PM
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Dingus, Sorry if my post sounded as if I took your critique personally; I didn't. I think your reading of HDT is wrong; but heck, lots of folks think I am wrong about lots of things (just ask my wife)! Muir, his zingers aside, had a high regard for Emerson and Thoreau. I completly agree that Muir was more of a hardman than Henry, but I also think that Henry was not even trying to do what Muir did. The same sort of argument can be made about the difference between Emerson and Thoreau (where Thoreau seems the hardman). So, perhaps you and I can just agree to admire Muir, and I'll go back to thinking highly of your (other) posts. I hope you all had a good weekend. Brian
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stabla
Sep 24, 2007, 7:21 PM
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dingus wrote: stabla wrote: Dingus I disagree here. I am not quite so sure HDT would have "died" without handouts. The old man was a true hardman in a time where cutting it out for yourself in the woods wasn't all to uncommon. Nope. He lived off handouts and he was both miserly and completely ingrateful about it. Yet he had the audicity to brag about his 'economy.' And MOST people lived on the edge of the wilderness in those days, just not on Conn. DMT Well Dingus I reckon I shall have to delve a little deeper into researching Mr. Thoreau before I keep glorifying him. Thanks for the reply and I, like btreanor, will go back to loving your other posts! Thanks for encouraging me to continually be a skeptic! peace blake
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kest2703
Sep 24, 2007, 7:21 PM
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lol i am. went through the actual classes, i despise summer camp, i usually go there to eat and thats it, rest is independant hiking with the crew. and well, all my certifications have been done independantly (first aid: fire dept. basic, climbing: job introduction, swimming: boredom, CPR: fire dept.) an i recall being quite the rebel in what to use when and the common sence law: you break it, you fix it. if ou cant fix it, dont assume somebody else will. and im an eagle scout slowly getting pissed off at what scouting has become stateside: a commercial, time-based program to get kids to eagle. at least i dont know... tenderfoot in 3 months? life in 6? scouts is supposed to get to eagle in 4 years, or was it 3.5. i cant remember what the offcial programm said. anybody know when the movie will be released on DVD? affes theaters suck, and the germnabns are not gonna show something like that.
(This post was edited by kest2703 on Sep 24, 2007, 7:24 PM)
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happiegrrrl
Sep 24, 2007, 9:17 PM
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: tradmanclimbs wrote: The botany book that listed a poisionous plant as edible was huge! False. Krakauer dreamed this theory up to make the kid less foolish. But it was discredited by researchers who tested all the plants. All edible and non-toxic. Ahhh - I had been wondering about that. So....I suppose t would be really wrong to answer my query as to how the film depicts the cause of feath(really - please don't anyone say). As for whether he lived off the kindness of strangers - the book has several passages detailing where people fed him, sheltered him and such. Also, that he refused some of the offers(while accepting others). A few things - 1) As for McCandles' side of the story, the book said his journal was fairly sparse. Notes, but not complete dialogs. 2) A person generally only tells one side of a story - theirs! And facts may be clouded or omitted entirely, in the telling. It's not hard to imagine that someone who named themself "Supertramp" might have some delusions about their reality. 3) His time in Alaska "wilderness" - which, by the technical definition of the term, I don't think he was actually in - (I may be wrong on this - was just reading "Desert Solitaire" by Edward Abbey, and believe he mentioned the definition as being 2500 contiguous acres with no road. But I digress...and troll...hahaha) - was from some time in April to middle of August - about 4 months. While I have no doubt at all I'd be dead long before that time in the same circumstances, I'd guess that he died of simple starvation, not compounded by any other cause. He supposedly had a big ole bag of rice, and the journal does mention he ate of wild berries and plants, along with killing some animals for meat. There was a stink bag of feathers in the bus, that he'd apparently been saving, possibly to create insulation for his clothing). Considering that he'd been on a subsistence diet for some time, it's possible that he'd gotten "used" to hunger, maybe even achieving altered states of consciousness though fasting. Another thing I had found interesting in the book was that there were some cabins within five miles circumference of the bus, and those cabins had been broken into and vandalized. They were vacant at the time, as (I understand) the people left the area for spring/summer and lived there in the colder times), but they had been ransacked with heavy damage, and some words written about...oh - can't recall! Some anger about ruining the wilderness, I think. The book makes a point of saying the park officials did not suspect McC of this vandalism. But, I've always wondered if there was more information about that available.
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happiegrrrl
Sep 24, 2007, 9:39 PM
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Off on a tangent...I was looking around and found something about a guy who also went to Alaska and lived on his own(for 35 years). Haven't done anything but scan the below url, but it sounds like something I'd be interested in. Seems this guy left plenty of information about his time out there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke
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ocary
Sep 24, 2007, 10:16 PM
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happiegrrrl wrote: Off on a tangent...I was looking around and found something about a guy who also went to Alaska and lived on his own(for 35 years). Haven't done anything but scan the below url, but it sounds like something I'd be interested in. Seems this guy left plenty of information about his time out there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke re: living on his own. He had a pilot occasionally drop off supplies. The guy was hard core as hell, but he technically was not living off the land. PBS occasionally airs his movie. Worthwhile to watch.
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jdouble
Sep 24, 2007, 10:33 PM
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ocary wrote: happiegrrrl wrote: Off on a tangent...I was looking around and found something about a guy who also went to Alaska and lived on his own(for 35 years). Haven't done anything but scan the below url, but it sounds like something I'd be interested in. Seems this guy left plenty of information about his time out there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Proenneke re: living on his own. He had a pilot occasionally drop off supplies. The guy was hard core as hell, but he technically was not living off the land. PBS occasionally airs his movie. Worthwhile to watch. I loved this one; "During a visit from Bob Swerer for a documentary, Dick performed 70 chin-ups on his 70th birthday."
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wildthing14
Sep 24, 2007, 11:19 PM
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i know this is late but i had to get my say in....tradmanclimbes, i did read the book and though Chris had some amazing trips i still think he went into Alaska unprepared. i wasn't referring to how he got there, i was talking about the end, when he lived in the bus. although he thrived in challenging situations he made some mistakes that led him to his death. yes, it's sad but with a little more planing could have continued to live in the mountains, i don't think he was an idiot just unprepared. (no hard feelings i just don't want to be misunderstood)
(This post was edited by wildthing14 on Sep 24, 2007, 11:26 PM)
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dingus
Sep 25, 2007, 5:06 AM
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Cheers to you Thoreau lovers. May I ask a question? Did you identify with the bus kid's 'quest?' DMT
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tradmanclimbs
Sep 25, 2007, 11:08 AM
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I had an interesting experience a few months ago that brought home how insulated most of us are from a real survival situation. Seriously, even when we are on a climbing trip we have a wallet full of credit cards. Enough food and fuel to get us home and back to work. We think we escape but in reality we allways have this umbilical cord to safty and imprisonment weather it be a cell phone or just a knowlege of the trail back to the car with the full gas tank and ride back to our lives full of comforts and chains. I was working in CT about 280 miles from home when I was robbed of my wallet. Not enough gas to make it home, no CC cards, ID or cell phone. No phone card and no one to call. I had 11 dollars in my pocket. I was pretty bummed out and stressed out but it was really just a tiny taste of homlessness. Not the real thing. I had my guitar in the van so i sold 2 unopened packs of strings and a capo for $15.00 and I now had $26.00 I had enough to put $20.00 in the tank and buy dinner. I got home safly to my network of money and chains but it was a tiny glimps of what it might be like to not have that safty net we take for granted. Years ago i was given Into the Wild as a gift. I read the cover and told myself, "what an idiot!! feckin tool went and got himself killed" the book sat on my shelf for a few years untill one day I picked it up and read it. I was amazed at the kids journey and the adventures he had with so few resorces. Thinking back on it now its probobly no more hardship than every day life in many third world countrys. That also often ends in early death.... Most of us have lost touch with what it means to truely survive. We survive in our material worlds, We fight for money, jobs, promotions, computers, cameras, gas and fancy houses. Verey few of us really know what it is like to fight on a daily basis for food, water, basic shelter and safty from bodily harm.
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reg
Sep 25, 2007, 12:00 PM
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i agree with you - it's the "general public" that would not understand your point. i found both stories somewhat facinating because i love adventure.
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pro_alien
Sep 25, 2007, 12:56 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: I was working in CT about 280 miles from home when I was robbed of my wallet. Not enough gas to make it home, no CC cards, ID or cell phone. No phone card and no one to call. I had 11 dollars in my pocket. Good idea to keep some emergency cash in the glove compartment... That, and put your wallet on a diet.
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happiegrrrl
Sep 25, 2007, 2:02 PM
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^ 2 Decembers ago, I arrive in JTree with $40 left for a two week trip..... In a rental car with the $40 spoken for in gas money to get me around for the trip and back to Vegas. I have a debit card(that's where the $40 were) and no c/cards. Funds hadn't gotten sent by a commercial client who had been assuring me they had....oops. When I finally got her to admit the check was still sitting in the office(supposedly), and screamed at her about...my dilemma.... She made the remark(in the tone that only a cold, NYC witch could) of something like "Why would you get on a plane in that condition!" I guess I have a little(d'ya think!?) obtuseness in me...now and then. But! Even though I was whimpering at the thought of selling gear off..... I knew things would work out(for I have the luck of a master magician; always pulling the rabbit out of the hat) - that was, after all, how I'd been able to get on that plane....Didn't attempt to explain that one to her. Long story short - she DID finally send the check, but it was a lesser amount than I was told. I had the person staying in my house deposit it, and...... I got home with $2 in my pocket.
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extreme_actuary
Sep 25, 2007, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: Dumb kid starves himself to death. Yawn. Another brilliant post by Roy. For those of you who haven't passed English 101, class is in session: This isn't a story about Chris McCanndless. Krakauer\Penn are using this kid's story to get their point across about self redemption and the search for meaning in life. It doesn't matter if you like the character or not, he is fictitious; coming from the author\director's mind. Krakauer and Penn never met this kid in real life, they don't know if he is a self-righteous a-hole or a brilliant charismatic soul searcher. They obviously don't care either. They create this character in a way to get their point across. It doesn't matter if he ate poisonous seeds or kayaked down the river, the book and movie are about the message. If it was just about the kid's story, they could have just published his journal and saved a lot of time and effort. I know Roy could have probably climbed all those crags, spent years in Alaska, and probably saved a few injured bears along the way, but it wouldn't illustrate the author's point or reason for writing this. Don't feel bad because no film directors are approaching you for your journals, it has nothing to do with your climbing ability or survival skills. It's because spending 3 days a week chalking up at the climbing gym and the weekends trying to hang dog your first 5.12 doesn't provide a good medium to deliver a message.
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scienceguy288
Nov 19, 2007, 2:09 PM
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coastal_climber wrote: bent_gate wrote: “Into the Wild” It was a good book... >Cam I enjoyed it as well.
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scienceguy288
Nov 19, 2007, 2:17 PM
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extreme_actuary wrote: In reply to: Dumb kid starves himself to death. Yawn. Another brilliant post by Roy. For those of you who haven't passed English 101, class is in session: This isn't a story about Chris McCanndless. Krakauer\Penn are using this kid's story to get their point across about self redemption and the search for meaning in life. It doesn't matter if you like the character or not, he is fictitious; coming from the author\director's mind. Krakauer and Penn never met this kid in real life, they don't know if he is a self-righteous a-hole or a brilliant charismatic soul searcher. They obviously don't care either. They create this character in a way to get their point across. It doesn't matter if he ate poisonous seeds or kayaked down the river, the book and movie are about the message. If it was just about the kid's story, they could have just published his journal and saved a lot of time and effort. I know Roy could have probably climbed all those crags, spent years in Alaska, and probably saved a few injured bears along the way, but it wouldn't illustrate the author's point or reason for writing this. Don't feel bad because no film directors are approaching you for your journals, it has nothing to do with your climbing ability or survival skills. It's because spending 3 days a week chalking up at the climbing gym and the weekends trying to hang dog your first 5.12 doesn't provide a good medium to deliver a message. Those were some pretty deep insights and I agree with you, having read the book and seen the movie. I just want to add that everyone has that primordial urge to go out into the wilderness, away from all of the evils that modern society have cultivated. That is why we climb, why we camp, why we hike, etc. McCandless, although misguided, represents that urge in all of us. In my mind the character shows us how to bring out the hopless romantic in all of us. And now even though it's hopeless, it's not all that bad.
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donald949
Nov 19, 2007, 7:15 PM
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Well, we went and saw the movie this weekend. I had read the Outside story years ago, and the wife had read the book. We really enjoyed the movie. It was very good, and I would like to see it a second time. It seemed to take a long time to develop where it wanted to take you. But once it did, I was hooked. Having read the article/wife the book, you think you know this kid. Sure he was less than completely prepared for the wilds, off on his adventure. And as a camper/backpacker/climber, I identify with that some. Sure he rejected his parents materialism, but it was more than that. There were reasons he rejected his family and headed out on his own, more than just their materialism. I would recommend the movie. Don
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stymingersfink
Nov 19, 2007, 11:27 PM
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Yep, here it comes, about to snake CI on a...
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