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krosbakken
Jun 18, 2007, 8:11 PM
Post #101 of 126
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boku wrote: Edit Add: Here's what it looks and sounds like when a carabiner breaks. Bob "BoKu" K.
Holy sh&t that thing exploded , that was awesome
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docjacen
Jun 19, 2007, 11:38 PM
Post #102 of 126
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I have had mine out twice now, and I won't be using the red bent wire gates for any load-bearing task. The gate sticks open just enough that if load was applied, the gate would miss the hook.
The straight wire gates don't seem to have this problem, but the action is getting sticky and squeaky. They probably just need some lube.
Still haven't head back from joe (who i PM'd) or their customer service (with whom i left a message) about being sent the wrong biners.
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skidawg
Jun 20, 2007, 12:36 AM
Post #103 of 126
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I PM'd Joe, and messaged customer service, and they sent me the correct order I had originally asked for with no cost to me...took them a while, and I never got a response, just a second invoice, so...that transaction was a pleasant one, I'm sure you'll hear from them...haven't had a chance to test them out yet though.
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krosbakken
Jun 20, 2007, 4:27 AM
Post #104 of 126
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docjacen wrote: I have had mine out twice now, and I won't be using the red bent wire gates for any load-bearing task. The gate sticks open just enough that if load was applied, the gate would miss the hook. The straight wire gates don't seem to have this problem, but the action is getting sticky and squeaky. They probably just need some lube. Still haven't head back from joe (who i PM'd) or their customer service (with whom i left a message) about being sent the wrong biners.
Did you try lubing up the red bent wiregate?
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docjacen
Jun 20, 2007, 5:52 AM
Post #105 of 126
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not yet- right now i'm in the middle of med school midterms.
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ja1484
Jun 25, 2007, 2:34 PM
Post #106 of 126
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Turned my batch into 4 sport draws that took part in a 4-day trip to the New this past weekend.
Pertinent points for the straight wiregate:
- Jakedatc is right. They don't like to sit in .5" nylon dogbones quite perfectly. It appears the curvature at the small end of the biner isn't quite big enough to allow for this just with the weight of the biner. That said, once weighted they tend to shift right into place, so this is a minor issue at most - I don't think there's any realistic chance of funky loading.
- They clip fine, but are a tad small for my fat fingers, and occasionally my finger gets stuck between the rope and the gate, requiring some flopping to release. This will vary depending on your finger size and clipping style. I'm a pinch clipper/finger roller.
- A good choice for cam slings. Cams are heavy enough, and their smaller size allows you to rack the cams more compactly.
- Wouldn't use these for trad draws, except maybe with skinny dyneema. They just don't have the capacity to make proper trad draws with thicker dyneema or 11/16th nylon (my preference).
Regarding the straight barrel gate:
- No complaints whatsoever. Performed admirably in any capacity you'd expect a biner like this to fill. Slightly larger size improved its handling a bit for me, but again, your fingers may vary.
Overall, I feel very satisfied for the price, and would still be satisfied at full price. I'll be picking up more in the future.
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ckirkwood9
Jun 25, 2007, 4:16 PM
Post #107 of 126
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spent a week climbing trad in the gunks, slab at whitehorse ledge in New Hampshire and used the mr's to set up TR for chimneys and corners along the maine sea coast in Bar Harbor.
i like the mad rock biners.
i have a combination of black diamond neutrinos, camp nanos and now the mad rocks. after this week I prefer the mad rocks. i love how they rack, slim profile means i can rack my gear more easily w/o a sling (i know... i COULD bring less gear) anyway... moving on... they're super light and they clip very well. The gate opening is MUCH better than the nanos and they're comparable in size to the neutrino.
If I hadn't bought a boatload of them... i'd say i'd be buying more.
I'll be reccommending them to my friends climbing buds.
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jimdavis
Jul 18, 2007, 12:48 AM
Post #108 of 126
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madrock wrote: Order from our site and use the discount code word * jimdavis* and you will get a sizeable discount on the biners and draws.
WTF! I didn't even get one of those biners!
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stymingersfink
Jul 18, 2007, 1:21 AM
Post #109 of 126
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jimdavis wrote: madrock wrote: Order from our site and use the discount code word * jimdavis* and you will get a sizeable discount on the biners and draws. I didn't even get one of those biners! 
funny too that it took you this long to find it... but I guess it doesn't surprise me too much. it wasn't a thread I was following all that closely either.
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jimdavis
Jul 21, 2007, 2:31 AM
Post #110 of 126
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maybe cause i haven't been on here in months.
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skidawg
Oct 28, 2007, 12:35 AM
Post #111 of 126
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Well...sorry to madrock and the rc forums for my late response on these. I was one of the lucky ones that got a discount on the biners. I was getting them to make draws out of them with bent gate and wire gate, but a little mixup later ended up with straight wire gate as well. The reason for this late review is because I've just recently had the opportunity to climb in an area that had more than bouldering...anyway...here it is:
I truly don't have anything much different than what has already been posted, but... Like others said they are basically high quality, and I would recommend them (if all you wanted was my quick opinion).
The wire gates seem to have a little drag when pulling the gate back, but this is nitpicky, and not a problem...little graphite or something coud fix it right up. I myself definitely prefer the bent gate...these madrock biners are bent just perfect, and made clipping in sport both to the bolt and rope much easier than a straight gate would (I have solid gate for bolt, and wire for rope end...both bent).
Another notpicky "issue" would be that the bottom of the biners are a little smaller than normal. This makes the dogbones off center when not weighted, but with even a little weight, they seat just fine.....I don't see this as being a problem at all, just looks funny when not being used....the solid gate seems to have a slightly bigger radius than the wire gates if it really would bug you.
The colors are very appealing, and well done...makes my rack stand out....really don't care myself for being flashy on the rock, but all the same...they do look cool.
I think one of my favorite things about them is their weight...good lord they are light. If you are looking to go lightweight, then these are the way to go....seems like comparable biners from other companies costed much more than madrock's when I got these.
Anyway....to sum it up, I tried to be as picky as I could be, but these really are good biners...especially for the price (at least when I bought them....don't know what they're going for now). Madrock did a good job here, and dealing with their customer service was a pleasant experience as well.
Would I recomment them?...yes
Cheers,
Justin
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billcoe_
Oct 28, 2007, 12:48 AM
Post #112 of 126
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jimdavis wrote: WTF! I didn't even get one of those biners!
Oh babe, ya missed a good one. Great biners at an amazing price.
Maybe next time eh Jim?
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stymingersfink
Oct 28, 2007, 1:08 AM
Post #113 of 126
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skidawg wrote: I myself definitely prefer the bent gate...these madrock biners are bent just perfect, and made clipping in sport both to the bolt and rope much easier than a straight gate would (I have solid gate for bolt, and wire for rope end...both bent).
Just an FYI & IIRC, many manufactures specifically recommend AGAINST clipping pro (especially bolts) with a bent gate. The bent gate is specifically designed for rope-side use in draws. I'll see if I can find anything in regards to this practice on the web. Hell, maybe it was in one of Largo's books.
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skidawg
Oct 28, 2007, 1:12 AM
Post #114 of 126
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stym...
I've never heard this before and don't see why that would be bad practice, but if you can back that up with sources I would be interested to hear them.
cheers
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shockabuku
Oct 28, 2007, 1:12 AM
Post #115 of 126
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skidawg wrote: ( I have solid gate for bolt, and wire for rope end...both bent).
How long have you been doing that? I thought it was generally not recommended.
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ja1484
Oct 28, 2007, 1:17 AM
Post #116 of 126
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It is. Bent gate crabs much more easily catch on the bolt/hanger and pry themselves open as opposed to straight gate.
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skidawg
Oct 28, 2007, 1:21 AM
Post #117 of 126
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The last thing I want to do is encourage (and practice) bad habits, so please fill me in on why this is bad?
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docjacen
Oct 28, 2007, 2:49 AM
Post #118 of 126
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see ja1484s post above. The bent gates are specifically made to be rope-end, try playing around with bent vs. staight biners on bolts next time you're out and you'll see what we're saying.
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stymingersfink
Oct 28, 2007, 3:54 AM
Post #120 of 126
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skidawg wrote: The last thing I want to do is encourage (and practice) bad habits, so please fill me in on why this is bad?
the answer is found directly above your own post:
ja1484 wrote: It is. Bent gate crabs much more easily catch on the bolt/hanger and pry themselves open as opposed to straight gate.
To elaborate:
When the bolt is clipped with a bent gate biner, studies have shown that the friction of the rope pulling through the bottom biner will cause the QD to lift. (IIRC Chris Harmston may have published a paper on this effect some time ago. Perhaps DMT might recall where to find this.)
This lift causes the bolt-end biner to rotate in relation to the bolt hanger. A certain percentage of the time, when the QD rotates towards this horizontal orientation, it facilitates the nose of the biner catching on the bolt hanger.
IF the leader were to fall with the biner in this orientation, the probability of the biner's hanging orientation contributing to failure goes way up. This, I believe, is also a contributing reason why BD also changed the orientation of the biners in their QD's several years ago, such that both gates face the same direction.
This last point is a bit of a pet peeve of mine when observed in the habits of other climbers at the crag. I rarely if ever mention it though, as it seems to be a holdover from some climbers with more experience (but perhaps less well read).
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skidawg
Oct 28, 2007, 8:06 AM
Post #121 of 126
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Thanks for all the replies. It's one of those things that probably won't happen, but still could, and I appreciate the explanations on the matter. It's essential in a sport like this to eliminate as much room for disaster as possible, and getting tips and info like this is why I enjoy keeping up on these forums when I can. I'll switch them over before I climb on them again. Thanks.
cheers
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td
Nov 7, 2007, 2:19 AM
Post #122 of 126
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angry wrote: June 11 A couple things: Every lightweight biner, EVERY SINGLE ONE, will flip, get sideways, and generally disconcert you occasionally when on a cam sling or tripled runner. MadRock is actually trying to provide us (working class) climbers a good product at a good price.
1. Wrong. I think the DMM Shield will not sit sideways. http://www.dmmclimbing.com/productsDetails.asp?id=&id2=45
2. Price. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the reason that Madrock is cheap that they mostly copy other designs, and then make the stuff in China with dirt cheap labor, thereby eliminating working class jobs at liveable wages? I realize that some people love Walmartification, but I'm not so sure when it comes to gear you count on in a fall. Climbing gear is already inexpensive compared to what it cost 20-30 years ago.
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ja1484
Nov 7, 2007, 2:31 AM
Post #123 of 126
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td wrote: angry wrote: June 11 A couple things: Every lightweight biner, EVERY SINGLE ONE, will flip, get sideways, and generally disconcert you occasionally when on a cam sling or tripled runner. MadRock is actually trying to provide us (working class) climbers a good product at a good price. 1. Wrong. I think the DMM Shield will not sit sideways. http://www.dmmclimbing.com/productsDetails.asp?id=&id2=45 2. Price. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the reason that Madrock is cheap that they mostly copy other designs, and then make the stuff in China with dirt cheap labor, thereby eliminating working class jobs at liveable wages? I realize that some people love Walmartification, but I'm not so sure when it comes to gear you count on in a fall. Climbing gear is already inexpensive compared to what it cost 20-30 years ago.
1) Wrong. Even standard-weight carabiners sometimes manage to futz their way around into non-optimal positions. Lightweights are just a bit more prone to it due to the decreased mass. But then, they're not as heavy to lug along, so which tradeoff do you want? No disrespect to DMM - they make the best carabiners money can buy - but they're not exempt from physics.
2) They're CE certified. They've been tested open gate by a forum user here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=la0PBne7GRE
And failed at 128% of the rated strength.
If it's any comfort, they seem solid and well-made. I would know - I got in on the deal and ordered 16 of them. I whip on them non-hesitantly and they are full bore in-use members of my rack at this point.
I'm really not concerned, although I think Mad Rock should just up and tell us who makes these things for them - if it's one of your more common reputable subcontractors (Faders, Kong, etc.) I'm sure it'd set most everyone's mind at ease.
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td
Nov 7, 2007, 7:10 PM
Post #124 of 126
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ja1484 wrote: - not exempt from physics.
If you read the link you will see that the Shield does seem to be usually exempt from the problem of a biner sitting sideways & crossloading, a problem I have noticed infrequently with some light biners. In testing, the Shield always reorients itself from the minor axis to the major axis.
It is not exempt from general lightweight biner flipping around, compared to heavy biners that hang down more steady.
Price - I would be happy to know if MadRock is not just using cheap labor & environmental shortcuts as the main factor in their pricing.
People griped unjustifiably for years about Omega Pacific, even though their total labor costs were not cheap.
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snowboardercolo
Nov 12, 2007, 2:50 PM
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Your website is down:
Fatal error: Class xlite__: Cannot inherit from undefined class object__ in /hsphere/local/home/madrock/madrockclimbing.com/var/run/classes/XLite.php on line 47
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