I know you are loathe to admit ANYTHING positive about the Pats, but one thing pretty much no one argues is their cap management. They do it better than ANY team ever has since the cap was introduced. I have no doubt that is they want him, they could sign him. For starters, I'd bet you Brady would restructure again to keep Moss, if he was asked. He's already done it several times to help keep guys he wanted.

And I believe Moss was called for an OPI penalty yesterday, wasn't he?

And I believe Moss was called for an OPI penalty yesterday, wasn't he?

Pats fan or not, you have to admit Moss pushes off of who ever is covering him pretty much every time he runs a route. He's been doing it since he had Cunningham pitching. It's kind of like how nobody called travelling on Michael Jordan. Ironically, the one time he got called for it yesterday was I think the one play all game where he didn't commit a foul. I suspect it was a makeup call of sorts... he barely touched the DB.

You might want to look into that cap thing. I don't think the Pats are in trouble but I remember reading that some kind of cap issue would more likely than not prevent them from signing Moss. Moreover, you guys are getting the niners pick and they are doing a pretty good job of making it a valuable one for you guys. If the Pats are getting a third or fourth pick in the first round, you can pretty much forget them signing Moss to a new contract. I wouldn't. He came in in '99 right? So he's what 30 or 31? I'd guess he is at or close to his peak. Why buy a depreciating asset if you are picking high in the first round?

But from a Pat's fan perspective, it's equally class-less to come out and blame the absence of one player and try to take credit away from the winning team as well. After all, last I checked it Harrison doesn't play defense, and it wasn't Indy's offense that the Pats scored TD's against twice in the final 9 minutes.

You want respect, you have to gie it in equal measure. Indy played a great game. They controlled pretty much 40 minutes of it. But they were outplayed for about 20 minutes. 20 pretty important minutes.

Urgh. Thanks for bringing that up. I can't remember who the 9'ers got for giving up that pick, but it was a real bonehead move. Especially now in hindsight that the niners are extra sucky.

Shit, we lost to the falcons!!

HEL 1S LNGER 4 9URS F4NZ!!

Hell is longer for you guys... wtf? How many games have you guys had this year with more than 10 points of offense? And all that suckiness inures to the benefit of the New England Patriots??? You should jump on the Patriots hating wagon with me.

Has anybody noticed that the Titans are 6-2? I personally think that after last seasons performance, nobody out there is willing to take these guys seriously yet they are quitely and steadily creeping into the post season.

Manning said it post game yesterday.

Reno echoed it in his first post in this thread today.

We have the worst offense in the league, bar none. fewest points, and I'm not sure we have even broken 200 yards of total offense in ANY game this year, no shit.

We've got a rookie O Coordinator, who is sure to be fired. Our coach, who was in great shape at the beginning of the season, his chances are beginning to look rocky.

Our 3rd year QB was taken #1 in the draft, paid a buttload of $, and has produced 0. People keep saying give the kid a chance, but shit, it's year 3. He has to start showing SOMETHING.

I dont' blame the pats for our woes though, they are entirely self inflicted.

The Giants on the other hand will probably inch their way into the post season, blow it in the first round and end up grabbing a kicker in the draft.

Not saying you should blame the Pats, but it sucks that the No 1 team in the NFL is the unintended beneficiary of the 9ers woes. Normally you can at least take comfort in the fact that a shitty season means some top rank new talent in the draft...

Oh well... for what it's worth I think the Jets are actually the worst team in the NFL with a tie going to the 9ers and the Dolphins for second place.

The Giants on the other hand will probably inch their way into the post season, blow it in the first round and end up grabbing a kicker in the draft.

outside of addai and moss, nobody on either offense had a day to write home about.

I said the whinning part because thats all i heard for 2 weeks about how the pats are running the score up on people and how butt hurt everyone is. not saying Indy would but fans etc would.


I think Welker was solid again.. not like off the charts but made some key plays. that guy who was making matt Light look bad had brady running around had a good game too.

And props to the Pats...so typical, fourth quarter comeback and all. But the Harrison excuse (yes I'll admit it's an excuse) is still worth discussing, at least for us fans. Harrison doesn't play defense but they probably could have used him on the drives that the Pats held them to no points in the 4th quarter. I personally would have rather seen Harrison play and they still lose and KNOW the Pats are the better team than have him not play, that goes for any other injured player on either team as well. And I bet all you Pats fans would like the right to say you beat the Colts at their best.

Like, the pats played only ok

and the colts played lights out...right?

colts controlled more of the game than the pats did.

But one team played better when it mattered most.

i asked a question. you didn't answer it.

ok then, no. Neither team did. WHich IMO was to be expected when two good teams play.

Oh, it is worth discussing. But I think then you have to discuss other factors as well. Like, the pats played only ok, they were penalized big time, they were down 10 in the 4th quarter on the road...

and they came from behind and won.

In my opinion, if your hopes of winning are dependent on one player, and that player is not your starting quarterback, you've already messed up big time.

fair enough. i hope to get the chance to play again in january. it will be tough, but i like my team

Discussing whether a team played as well as they could have is NOT the same as discussing the effects of an absence of a key player. I'll give you that the Pats had players out too, but to say they didn't play well so that's why they almost lost... Ummm yeah that's kinda the point of playing. You can't really blame your winning or losing on anything but how you played. When I said "at their best" I didn't mean they had to be having their best game, they just had to come prepared and healthy. And the penalties were actually quite limited when you look at the types of in-game penalties. There were actually very few interference calls on either side despite heavy contact offensively and defensively for both teams. Most of the Pats penalties were things like illegal formations, false starts, stuff that my old high school coach would say were "mental" and thus avoidable. As far as the home vs. road thing, I really won't get into that, yes home field advantage is just that, an advantage, but all teams deal with that at some point or another.

No, I agree with you.

I guess my point, stated hopelessly unclearly, was that you can point to one factor as to why a team won/lost performed/didn't performed, but if you ONLY look at that one factor the analysis will be flawed.

And sure, different factors have different weight. Not having harrison isn't the same as Manning breaking his leg on the first play of the game. Maybe I give different weight to Harrison being out than others do.