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getoutmore
Nov 15, 2007, 3:53 PM
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I've never placed gear on a route, only cleaned it, but looking to get into trad. I'll need a rack of course. My questions are, which is better for the beginning climber, nuts or cams? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? What does a good starter trad rack consist of? I'm sure there are lots of variables to know, but I'm just looking for generic answers. Thanks.
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coastal_climber
Nov 15, 2007, 4:01 PM
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Nuts: cheap, easier to evaluate placements.
Cam's: Expensive, can be multi-directional anchor, easier to clean (in some cases)
I'd say for a starter rack get a 1/2 set or full set of cam's and a complete set of nuts. Go to a gear shop and see what cams best fit your hand.
>Cam
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drfelatio
Nov 15, 2007, 4:35 PM
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Neither one is "better" than the other. That's an apples to oranges comparison as nuts and cams protect different types of cracks. Nuts need a constriction to sit in while cams are best in parallel-sided cracks or pods. You'll need both on your rack.
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kovacs69
Nov 15, 2007, 4:37 PM
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ROTFLMFAO
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donald949
Nov 15, 2007, 4:41 PM
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Both have their place. As well as cheaper, nuts are also lighter. Nuts also go in really skinny/thin cracks.
Cams can go into cracks that are parallel.
Lead some routes with your climbing partner's rack, that you seconded before.
Don
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theirishman
Nov 15, 2007, 5:02 PM
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passive pro fo sho bro!! nuts are nice cause they are easier to place, more reliable, lighter and cheaper, just get nuts hexes and tricams, that all i like to lcimb on! cams are for indian creek
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kane_schutzman
Nov 15, 2007, 5:19 PM
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theirishman wrote: passive pro fo sho bro!! nuts are nice cause they are easier to place, more reliable, lighter and cheaper, just get nuts hexes and tricams, that all i like to lcimb on! cams are for indian creek
Dont listen to this guy, he is clearly dilusional. If you climb any crack that doesnt have plate sized holds then your going to want cams. Plus 80 of the cracks you will be climbing I bet are going to be hand and fist, your going to wanna sew it up. Definately climb though a big before you spend the money on gear. Wish I had done that.
I would say
1 set nuts and even then I dont carry then all alot a times, just what I think I may need.
One Number 4 Camalot
Two Number 3 Camalots
Two Number 2 Camalots
Two Number 1 Camalots
Smaller sized aliens, or a different cam, maybe tcu? Actually fuck it, I like aliens. Or you could possible get away using nuts for the smaller sizes, but you will want cams eventually.
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theirishman
Nov 15, 2007, 5:37 PM
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dont listen to this crazy guy! ^^^ tri cams is all you need for parallel crack, just place them in the active mode, it will save money and weight!  come on, all the cool kids are doin it
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donald949
Nov 15, 2007, 6:22 PM
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Actually, I climbed for years on nothing but nuts and hexes. Then I started picking up a TCU here and there. They work great in cracks where nuts are not quite right.
Don
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Jbitz
Nov 15, 2007, 6:41 PM
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As you might have already determined it depends on the rock you are climbing. There are many factors you need to take into account when deciding on what piece to place. Size, shape, type and quality of rock, and what you have available for gear.
Here is how I would generalize what gear I would use in for a particular placement:
Cams-Vertical parallel sided cracks or outwardly flaring cracks
Nuts and Hexes-irregular cracks or inwardly flaring cracks
Tricams- horizontal crack placements
You have cleaned a route, so sounds like you have access to someone elses gear to try out. Practice placing gear on the ground. You will get better at picking the right piece for the job when you decide to hit the wall. It's also nice to climb with someone who has years of trad experience and get some pointers if you can. I suggest placing gear on toprope till your comfortable and keep evaluating gear placements as you second and get feedback on your placements from your partners.
Pick the gear based on what you will most likely need for the area you are climbing in. You can expand your rack as needed. If you have the cash I would get a set of nuts, hexes, and cams plus several slings and biners to start.
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desertwanderer81
Nov 15, 2007, 6:50 PM
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theirishman wrote: dont listen to this crazy guy! ^^^ tri cams is all you need for parallel crack, just place them in the active mode, it will save money and weight! come on, all the cool kids are doin it
Agreed! Tricams FTW!!
Too bad they're only awesome at certain crags, heh.
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billcoe_
Nov 15, 2007, 7:42 PM
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Before you get either you need some old timer who already owns all that shit to follow around, climb with and learn from.
You need knowledge.
Thats not a diss, it's a shot across the bow so you can live longer.
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ja1484
Nov 15, 2007, 7:54 PM
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Read "how to Rock Climb" by John Long. "Climbing Anchors" by John Long/Bob Gaines is not a bad idea either.
As for the differences between nuts and cams: they're there. That's about all there is to it, because you're going to need both on your rack.
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getoutmore
Nov 15, 2007, 8:25 PM
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Thank you all for your opinions. I climb regularly with an "old timer" who has climbed everywhere and has all the gear. Because he has all the gear and has climbed everywhere is why I asked all of you your opinion. I'll climb more trad with him and work on placements and such while asking, "what else would work here?". I would love to keep my rack simple and still be able to make it up most routes. Not real interested at the moment in the gear that is more specialized.
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livinonasandbar
Nov 15, 2007, 9:17 PM
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Gear is highly specialized for a reason... passive and active pro each have different applications and you're likely to need (or wish you had) both on any given route.
Look at some of the "beginning leader's" rack specials available from suppliers. They generaly offer a mix of both passive and active stuff. You might find a deal you like (ask your friend to help you).
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drfelatio
Nov 15, 2007, 9:19 PM
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getoutmore wrote: Thank you all for your opinions. I climb regularly with an "old timer" who has climbed everywhere and has all the gear. Because he has all the gear and has climbed everywhere is why I asked all of you your opinion. I'll climb more trad with him and work on placements and such while asking, "what else would work here?". I would love to keep my rack simple and still be able to make it up most routes. Not real interested at the moment in the gear that is more specialized.
Make sure to take a better look at his placements next time as well. Before you clean the piece, look at how it interacts with the rock. Ask him why he placed gear where he did and why he chose that particular piece over another one.
For me, the hardest part about placing gear isn't where to place gear or what type of gear to place, but what size to reach for without getting it wrong. I've gotten better at that as I've climbed more.
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billcoe_
Nov 16, 2007, 4:33 AM
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getoutmore wrote: I've never placed gear on a route, only cleaned it, but looking to get into trad. I'll need a rack of course. My questions are, which is better for the beginning climber, nuts or cams? What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? What does a good starter trad rack consist of? I'm sure there are lots of variables to know, but I'm just looking for generic answers. Thanks.
Glad you got the old guy lined up! I think both have their place. For nuts, I think wired nuts (I like Dmm) from just under your little finger size to the biggest size are the ones to own, and hexes about 1-1/2", say a #6 or 7 BD size and up (not the small ones). some young climbers skip the nuts all together, and although it works for them, I find that you can carry a crapload more nuts as they are significantly lighter and cheaper than cams, and depending on your area, they may work a hell of a lot better in most placements).
Nuts love constrictions in cracks that open in back, cams do not.
Eventually you wind up with both, keep an eye on your partners rack and sometimes buying gear to compliment it is the thing to start with.
Good luck!
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theirishman
Nov 16, 2007, 7:34 PM
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i heard that camp is comming out with smaller tri cams, anyone else heard this? if so good bye tcus!
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drfelatio
Nov 16, 2007, 7:48 PM
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theirishman wrote: i heard that camp is comming out with smaller tri cams, anyone else heard this? if so good bye tcus!
Yup, it's true. Check out it (bout halfway down):
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...007_-_Day_3_715.html
(This post was edited by drfelatio on Nov 16, 2007, 7:49 PM)
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cracklover
Nov 16, 2007, 9:06 PM
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getoutmore wrote: I would love to keep my rack simple and still be able to make it up most routes.
Well, make a choice, because you can't do both. Either get both active and passive gear, or just do the routes that can be climbed safely with the one type of gear you've bought. Seriously. It's a choice. Trad climbers make choices. If you want to put off buying nuts, there are plenty of routes you can do that can be safely done with just cams. You'll have to do a lot of research, but that's fine. Set your own challenges, and go for it. Same goes for the other way around - buy a set of nuts and a couple tricams, and there are plenty of routes you can do. Plenty you can't, too, without running it out.
'S up to you, man. Your question is like asking - for eating, what's more important, a fork or a knife? People got by without forks for a long time in history. Give it a shot if you want. Just be aware that when you step up to the table with only a knife, you do *not* want to find a plateful of peas!
GO
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