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johnhenry
Oct 15, 2002, 8:00 AM
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The recent mega-epic fall of mrhardgrit has prompted a slurry of questions and comments concerning aid soloing.
I am trying to suss out the most ideal "pig-less", solo belay technique.
Let me explain my basic set-up and open it up for questions, comments, etc.
First, I establish an anchor with a web-o-lette(cord-o-lette) that has been tied with an upward pull.
Second, I attach the lead line with a fig. 8 or alpine butterfly(if I can remember it).
Third, I lace in a Screamer. Clip the Screamer to the powerpoint and to the lead line at a distance slightly less than runner's full extension.
Points to consider:
1.) the Zipper Screamer seams most ideal for solo belays because of its high shock absorbtion
2.) how far down the lead line you clip the other end of the Screamer in seems critical. Thoughts???
3.) What about multiple Screamers in series? What other load absorbtion methods are out there?
Rock on,
johnhenry
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taxexile
Oct 15, 2002, 8:22 AM
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Isn't that going to be a bit expensive? Every time you take a fall you will deploy the screamer attached to the anchor. Surely it's better to put screamers on the first couple of pieces above the anchor, and thereafter on suspect pro or below long run-outs?
Suppose you take a short fall onto a perfect bolt half way up the pitch, deploying the anchor Screamer. You will have to complete the pitch without any "dynamism" at the anchor, and you've just blown an expensive Screamer unnecessarily.
Tom's Dutch friend's use of bungy elastic where you use a Screamer sounds interesting!
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spiffdog
Oct 15, 2002, 2:25 PM
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If your falling that much, I imagine the expense is the least of your worries.
Spiff
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philbox
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Oct 15, 2002, 9:11 PM
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Or you could simply use Pika`s re usable screamer for the purpose as you describe.
...Phil...
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kindredlion
Oct 15, 2002, 11:17 PM
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Screamers off of the bealy sounds a little excessive, unless of course your anchors are questionable.
I will place a screamer really only on anything I clip that is truly questionable. I will also do my best to avoid falling at all.
Nice One Spiff!
Adam
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jake
Oct 18, 2002, 7:42 PM
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screamer at the belay will probabally not rip if you fall with lots of rope out. they release at ca 2kn=200kg=400 pounds. With rope drag and friction at carabiner 2kn is alot at the belay. So a screamer at the belay is probally good for big falls, but will not rip in small medium falls and will not help bad pro that much.
( I donīt know this. itīs just my theory)
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johnhenry
Oct 18, 2002, 10:25 PM
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I take your point Jake. But in the event of a factor 2 fall on the anchor it may cushion things out considerably.
If a screamer saved my ass in an long fall, I wouldn't be worried about the cost.
My other questions still stand though.
I am after dynamic simplicity...
John
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johnhenry
Mar 29, 2004, 6:08 AM
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I guess Chad proved that the Screamer laced into the belay can save your hide in the solo aid fall! :shock:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56123
Glad you are still with us amigo...
Did you use a Zipper Screamer or a regular Screamer??? I can't tell from the picture, did you tear out all of the bar tacks?
Right On Dude, get back on the horse... Use your Zen powers...
john
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timpanogos
Mar 29, 2004, 3:04 PM
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It was just a screamer (not zipper) - yes, it fully deployed and then some - I could not hammer the knot out of my lead rope - it was not a full factor 2 because of penji, but I've never seen a knot loaded like that!
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lambone
Mar 29, 2004, 6:20 PM
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Chad,
Next time tie into the screamer with a Clove Hitch instead of a Figure 8. It will come out much easier.
Just make sure you have an 8 on the main power point also.
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timpanogos
Mar 30, 2004, 2:05 PM
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I went to replace my blown screamer - to be clear - it was a zipper.
I was not sure - but the zipper is the larger one put in the yellow shrink wrap - the screamer is not yellow shink wrapped.
Interesting note in the yates paperwork
Because of no mechanical advantage on a factor 2 fall - the rope is the limiting 9kn factor - the anchor and the person get hit with the 9kn (without screamer/zipper).
A 1.99 factor fall - had like 15kn on the pro - because of mechanical advantage. There documentation shows that the factor two I did on the zipper (no mechanical advantage) should have only produced about 3kn of hit on the anchor with the zipper - I assume this same 3kn is about what I would have felt also.
Anyway, kind of interesting that a factor 2 fall will actually hit your anchor with a lot less force (basically 1/2) than a long fall on the first few pieces of gear off the deck (based on spacing of course).
I'm not sure about that 3kn hit factor however, not sure that 660 pounds would have set that knot that tight?
Chad
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mrhardgrit
Mar 30, 2004, 5:21 PM
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I have looked at two different ideas and had a play around on them.
1. A dutch friend of mine uses a bungy cord (tripled I think) backed up to the belay with a 3 foot length of 11mm lead rope. He's fallen on it a number of times and had no problems.
2. The other alternative that I have been playing around with recently is using a Via Ferrata belay http://www.adrenalinesport.fr/rando-via.htm .It is the metal section rather than the screamers. They are completely relaodable and are designed for very large factor falls (up to f5). I haven't taken a fall onto it, but I have jumped around on one attached to a belay and it seems to cushion shock pretty well.
Tom
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lambone
Mar 30, 2004, 9:36 PM
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I like that Via Ferrata idea...seems like it'd work great.
How expensive are those things?
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adeptus
Apr 3, 2004, 5:04 PM
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In reply to: I...2. The other alternative that I have been playing around with recently is using a Via Ferrata belay http://www.adrenalinesport.fr/rando-via.htm .It is the metal section rather than the screamers. They are completely relaodable and are designed for very large factor falls (up to f5). I haven't taken a fall onto it, but I have jumped around on one attached to a belay and it seems to cushion shock pretty well. Tom
The problem with using via ferrata devices is that they activate at very high impact forces. Actually if you use a dynamic rope you will not be able to activate it, even in a factor 2 fall.
If you have to make the belay more dynamic then use a Screamer, but a dynamic rope will do in most cases.
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