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granite_grrl
Nov 23, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Bleh......I mean, why?
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chossmonkey
Nov 23, 2007, 12:59 PM
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Seems a little odd.
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the_climber
Nov 23, 2007, 6:18 PM
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Looks like somebody got into that trendy "ice climbing" thing and actually listened to the hardcore "gym climber" Who said this is the best tool... you only want this one. When asked about leashes... OH, you want this one, it's the best.
Fuck, there was a time those working at the gear shop knew what they were talking about. Not the ones who say they've been climbing ice for 6 years in the shop, when you distinctly remember giving them tips and pointers on their self confessed second time on ice... the season before... then they were freaing out on a easy grade 2 while telling the chick he took out climbing it was close to grade 4.
Lame, just lame.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Nov 23, 2007, 6:19 PM)
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 23, 2007, 6:34 PM
Post #5 of 25
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Nothing wrong with running leashes on those tools. What are you guys, the fckin stlye police? Take advantage of the moduler grips but have a set of androids on there for those sustained 5+ pillars is just fine by me.. Seems like a lot of really cool trendy climbers are falling out of their tools these days leashles is fine for some people and others like em or need them or both. No reason you can't mix and match your tools and styles. JMOP
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julio412
Nov 23, 2007, 7:18 PM
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I agree;the nice thing about leashes is that they feel secure.The problem I see is not so much the leashes but the tool-way too specialized.
An ice tool is more than just the pick and a way to swing it.
The thing about ice no matter where you are, you quickly enter the mountains and versatility is king.
Chouinard believed in this and I think to some extent so does Malcolm Daly.
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the_climber
Nov 23, 2007, 8:16 PM
Post #7 of 25
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If you look close you'll see my Taa-k-oons indeed are equideed with leashes. My Lame comment is more directed to the attitude of the gear shops, which quite frankly ends up matching all to many people into the wrong set of tools.
There are a time and place for leashes. I for one climb depending on the situation, and should I wish to climb leashless above a single pitch I have a spring leash set up for that. The fact of the matter is that most new/novice climbers are better off with a more basic tool, which would serve them better during the period which they develop skills and their own style of climbing. Ice tools are the climbing shoe alternative of winter.... not the crampons, tools are a much more personal thing whenit comes to preference and style (of climbing).
FYI Taa-k-oons and Nomics share a near identical geometry. However the Taa-k-oons plung much better, have the option of removing the horn on the handle, and have a hammer... making them more versitile for MY purposes.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Nov 23, 2007, 8:21 PM)
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 24, 2007, 1:04 AM
Post #8 of 25
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So you bash the guy for running leashes on His leashless tools while YOU run leashes on YOUR leashless tools, Nice sure you don't work for GWB??
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dps
Nov 24, 2007, 1:50 AM
Post #10 of 25
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the_climber wrote: FYI Taa-k-oons and Nomics share a near identical geometry. However the Taa-k-oons plung much better, have the option of removing the horn on the handle, and have a hammer... making them more versitile for MY purposes.
Except Nomics have much less pick shift when changing grips. I've climbed with both tools (own Nomics and my partner has Taa-k-oons) and they handle very differently given their similar geometries. I agree the Nomics are specialized tools, but I'm adapting to using them in more situations.
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rockraider715
Nov 24, 2007, 2:01 AM
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Ever multi- pitch in BC and tool fall into 4 feet of snow somewhere below you?
The leash or a lanyard I think is good prevenitive measure to avoid $279 loss to the ground and finishing an arm burning route at altitudee with one pick?- not so good.
ps- get your hands on Nomic- there will be no letting go. They rock.
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 24, 2007, 2:28 AM
Post #12 of 25
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The GWB coment was in refrence to the hypocritical BS
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 24, 2007, 2:32 AM
Post #13 of 25
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Interestingly enough the Nomic comes factory equiped to accept the petzl clipper leash. The user in the photo modifyed their units to accept the Android which is a better leash system and you guys bust their chops??????? Actually we do have plastic leather boots now and they are great! Most silgle boots these days have as much or more synthetic material as they do leather.
(This post was edited by tradmanclimbs on Nov 24, 2007, 2:46 AM)
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dps
Nov 24, 2007, 4:11 AM
Post #14 of 25
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Interestingly enough the Nomic comes factory equiped to accept the petzl clipper leash. The user in the photo modifyed their units to accept the Android which is a better leash system and you guys bust their chops???????
I agree with the hypocrisy about leashes, however I don't know about the BD Android being a "better" leash system. I climbed with Quarks for a long time before getting my Nomics and can't stand using my friend's BD leashes.
Your mileage may vary.
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tradmanclimbs
Nov 24, 2007, 11:25 AM
Post #16 of 25
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I know a few guys who run Quarks with Androids because the Clip point is faster than the Petzle clipper.YMMV
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chossmonkey
Nov 24, 2007, 2:47 PM
Post #17 of 25
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rockraider715 wrote: Ever multi- pitch in BC and tool fall into 4 feet of snow somewhere below you? The leash or a lanyard I think is good prevenitive measure to avoid $279 loss to the ground and finishing an arm burning route at altitudee with one pick?- not so good. ps- get your hands on Nomic- there will be no letting go. They rock.
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rockraider715
Nov 24, 2007, 6:01 PM
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Cause is soooooo old school.
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gargrantuan
Nov 24, 2007, 6:51 PM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: I know a few guys who run Quarks with Androids because the Clip point is faster than the Petzle clipper.YMMV
when i had quarks, i ran them with androids because they are simply a better leash system. the clipper leash is unidirectional, meaning that you can only press one side of it in to re-attach it to the tool, so you have to use either your thumb all the time or your forefinger all the time. the android is a simple 'hook the hole on to the peg and pull down to re-attach' mechanism that works much much better. it just requires a lot less monkeying around and ends up being much faster.
as far as nomics with leashes goes....they wouldn't have made them to accept leashes if they didn't think people would want to use them. with the nomic you're paying for the different hand position and the different geometry, if you want to use a leash with it, let 'er buck. personally i wouldn't want to, just buy vipers if you want leashed/leashless options but i don't care how people choose to run their rigs.
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dps
Nov 24, 2007, 7:39 PM
Post #20 of 25
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gargrantuan wrote: when i had quarks, i ran them with androids because they are simply a better leash system. the clipper leash is unidirectional, meaning that you can only press one side of it in to re-attach it to the tool, so you have to use either your thumb all the time or your forefinger all the time. the android is a simple 'hook the hole on to the peg and pull down to re-attach' mechanism that works much much better. it just requires a lot less monkeying around and ends up being much faster.
I disagree, I always fumble with the Androids more. I have accidentally unclipped Android leashes more times than I can count when using friend's tools. I also found removing the clip from the bolt was difficult at times, especially on wet 'n cold climbs. Never had either problem with my Clipper leashes.
Again, it's all a matter of personal preference and what you are used to.
I use tethers on my Nomics in the alpine, so I don't quite understand running leashes on them either. Although I will probably put leashes on them for my wife, who ice climbs all of once or twice a year, just so she'll try them without a fear of dropping them.
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gargrantuan
Nov 24, 2007, 8:33 PM
Post #21 of 25
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fair enough. different strokes for different folks.
i don't think i'd actually put leashes on my nomics. however, i can understand people not wanting to lead ice without them, regardless of what most people's intended use of the tool is. i am not so sure that i like leading ice leashless yet, but i have the luxury of two sets of tools.
re: nomics in the alpine.
do you use a pin hammer? what kind of tether are you running?
(This post was edited by gargrantuan on Nov 24, 2007, 8:35 PM)
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dps
Nov 24, 2007, 8:44 PM
Post #22 of 25
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gargrantuan wrote: re: nomics in the alpine. do you use a pin hammer? what kind of tether are you running?
I made a bungee tether out of old half-rope sheaths and elastic cord. I think this season I'm going to have a friend stitch some elastic cord inside a long skinny sling, which will pack up smaller.
Right now I'm using fishing wire (through the hole on the nomics handle) -> mini-biners -> my tethers. I'm going to try and run a skinny sling under the handle and get someone to bartack it for me.
I just don't take pins when I'm alpine climbing with the Nomics. If I'm climbing a route I think will need pins, more than likely I have my Quarks. I have pounded a Spectre with the back of the pick on the Nomics, that was...well..interesting. Wouldn't recommend it.
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the_climber
Nov 24, 2007, 9:07 PM
Post #23 of 25
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pds, if your looking for a spring leash/tether for your nomics, be it for ice or alpine, consider just tieing your own with 1/2 webbing and shock cord, it shouldn't cost more than about $5.00 to set up to get something almost identical to the Grivel Spring leash. That's what I generally run when leashless. Dropping a tool just isn't an option 99.9999% of the time in my opinion. Setting it up so you have minimal slack when at full swing at full reach is what I find best.
You're right about the Taa-k-oons and Nomics... despite the similar geometry they handle completely different. Function of where the weight is, and how much weight. Both are amazing tools.
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dps
Nov 24, 2007, 9:16 PM
Post #24 of 25
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the_climber wrote: pds, if your looking for a spring leash/tether for your nomics, be it for ice or alpine, consider just tieing your own with 1/2 webbing and shock cord, it shouldn't cost more than about $5.00 to set up to get something almost identical to the Grivel Spring leash. That's what I generally run when leashless. Dropping a tool just isn't an option 99.9999% of the time in my opinion. Setting it up so you have minimal slack when at full swing at full reach is what I find best. You're right about the Taa-k-oons and Nomics... despite the similar geometry they handle completely different. Function of where the weight is, and how much weight. Both are amazing tools.
I've been using spring leash setup (as detailed above) for a couple seasons now...
I actually prefer the half rope sheath to 1/2" webbing, tried it with webbing already. Again, it's personal preference.
I have a friend that can bar-tack, so that's why I'm going to play around with super-tape, skinny webbing, etc...
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the_climber
Nov 24, 2007, 9:29 PM
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dps wrote: I've been using spring leash setup (as detailed above) for a couple seasons now... I actually prefer the half rope sheath to 1/2" webbing, tried it with webbing already. Again, it's personal preference.
dps wrote: I have a friend that can bar-tack, so that's why I'm going to play around with super-tape, skinny webbing, etc...
You lucky SOB
If you can get a bar-tack on super tape... go for it man. Light and simple. The way to go!
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