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winkwinklambonini
Oct 16, 2002, 5:41 PM
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I have recently discovered that people though I was saying to rack stoppers on lockers.
If you know what a KEYlock biner is than you should see why it is much easier to remove one from a stopper placement while hanging from a bad rest on hard trad. (the master of run-on sentences) It's not about the wieght, or even dropping stoppers. It's about speed.
There's gonna be a time when you are hanging from two fingers in up to the 1st knuckle, smearing on bad feet. This is hard trad, when the percentage of time you have only one hand working decides your fate. The faster you can pull out of the crack, grab the biner, bite the right one, place it, flip it, REMOVE it, replace biner, draw it, and clip it, the sooner you can get your other bad jam in KEEP MOVING!
In my humble opinion, it's stupid to make things harder for yourself. Take my advice people, you'll thank me.
[ This Message was edited by: winkwinklambonini on 2002-10-16 11:01 ]
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jamison
Oct 16, 2002, 6:27 PM
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What is a key lock biner? Can you supply a picture or a link to a picture??
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stevematthys
Oct 16, 2002, 6:28 PM
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i can take stoppers out of my ovals pretty quick. in my opion i would rather have keylock biners on my sling on draws or somthing like that.
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 16, 2002, 6:34 PM
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an example would be petzl spirit or attache, some kongs, and BD Positron. KeyLock describes the way the gate engages the nose of the carabiner.
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fo_d
Oct 16, 2002, 6:43 PM
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I dont climb hard trad yet but as a newbie trad leader I think that would help me sometimes. Thanks for the tip.
Les
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skari
Oct 16, 2002, 6:45 PM
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Here is an exelent link that describes the keylock
http://www.kong.it/doc201.htm
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jamison
Oct 16, 2002, 7:06 PM
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Oh!!!
Good link. Thanks!
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danl
Oct 16, 2002, 7:33 PM
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Well I'm not sure whats considered "Hard Trad" these days but I've never had problems with notched gates.
Maybe one should consider proficency of movement rather that compensating for inadequecy with gimmicks?
I agree that it is stupid to make things harder for yourself than neccessary but does it really make that much of a difference?
and if you are in that much of a panic climbing that milliseconds make a difference maybe you are in over your head?
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 16, 2002, 8:05 PM
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Danl
Are you saying keylocks are gimmicks?
If you are then your definition is too broad.
About using keylocks as a crutch: Doesn't adaquecy include proper technique of both motion and systems?
I don't know if I would have a problem if I were to use notched gated biners for racking, because I use keylocks, because they work better.
But, I always see less experienced leaders fumbling with standard biners.
The great thing about this site is that ideas are exchanged.
So what your REASON why me or anyone else shouldn't use a better system?
[ This Message was edited by: winkwinklambonini on 2002-10-16 13:08 ]
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flattracker23
Oct 16, 2002, 8:29 PM
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I think winkwinklambonini is right keylocks are the way to go. I prefer the Kong and Petzl. I don't like the gate on the Black Diamond Positron. I will only buy keylocks from now on. I will use my old pin and notch carabiners to set up anchors.
Spencer
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danl
Oct 17, 2002, 1:30 PM
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Yes key lock biners are good. The lack of notch definatly makes things easy to work with. But as far as racking nuts I think you make an extreme argument for using keylocks.
First you say you need it for hard trad. Then you say its good for beginners because you see them fumbling. Beginners will always fumble thats the way it is. As for the hard trad argument I've managed to lead 11's placing stoppers racked on a notched biner without trouble.
I'm not saying don't use a better system I'm just saying its not that big a deal.
One reason to use notched biners too. I've seen many sets of stoppers slide off the end of keylock biners because some beginner fumbled. I've also had my own rack of stoppers saved by the notch in my biner.
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 18, 2002, 12:32 AM
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Maybe one should consider proficency of movement rather that compensating for inadequecy with notches?
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vegastradguy
Oct 18, 2002, 12:56 AM
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I dunno about saying which is better for what purpose. Keylocks certainly have their advantages, and lord knows I'll probably wish I had one on my first hard trad lead.
However, I've only ever used ovals, and I have yet to encounter snagging. Since it's all I've ever used, I'm used to it. So, I'll stick to my ovals for now...
Now that I've spoken my mind, watch close everyone as I amazingly switch over to keylocks by the end of the year.
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whipper
Oct 18, 2002, 1:13 AM
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Kong makes keylock ovals. Ah the best of both worlds. I have used them for years and do agree that they are best for racking nuts on, Danl, when you get on hard trad you will know what a diff every thing makes.
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jhwnewengland
Oct 18, 2002, 1:50 AM
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danl says he's lead 11's. I'd call that hard trad. And I agree with you winkwink, but damn, you really are one helluva "rack your nuts on keylocks" advocate. I've never seen anyone so adamant about such a small thing. Here's mine:
Put a dot on all your left socks! Then only wear those on your left feet, and undotted ones go on your right! That way you don't get that annoying toe bunch up on your pinky because your big toe stretched the sock out!!!!! It makes ALL the difference when hiking, but you'll only know when you're on HARD hikes. If you don't do it this way you're an idiot. Some people will counter that this method wears the sock out quicker, but what's more important: performance or money?
Jan
P.S. I really do this.
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 18, 2002, 1:56 AM
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I always blow into my shoes to get all the shitout. But sometimes I get it into my eyes.
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danl
Oct 18, 2002, 2:29 AM
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Whipper...so keylocks make a difference when you are leading hard trad..could you please define hard trad? If you are a 5.9 leader on his/her first ten and you're pumped thats pretty hard right? I know people who would consider astroman pretty easy ..but I know others that would consider that hard trad
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 18, 2002, 5:11 PM
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In the end, unless someone gives info that might result in death, posting ideas are just that:Ideas. If you've never heard of an idea and it sounds good to you, cool, try it out. Discuss the idea and come up with your own decision.
P.S. If you wear La Sportiva shoes you should stop, because I like boreal more.
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lightboi
Oct 19, 2002, 11:35 PM
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Here is my own thoughts regarding keylock beiners. I hate em for racking gear, the notch in a normal beiner nose stops me from droping the whole bleeding set of nuts when I am trying to place a nut while pumped and shaking. Nothing sucks more than watching all of those nuts bounce happily down at my belayer and all I have left in are large pro for the (*#$)@(#$%!!!! finger crack. Looks like it is time for another runout.
The only thing that sucks more than keylocks are people who put bolts next to cracks.
hard trad is whatever I just took a whipper from.
josh
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winkwinklambonini
Oct 20, 2002, 12:16 AM
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You're wierd.......
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estwing
Oct 20, 2002, 1:11 AM
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I use keylock biners for my nut racking purposes. They have served very well on my numerous leads (three).
My dollar fifty two.
Sam
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lightboi
Oct 20, 2002, 5:40 AM
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weird is cute and endearing
stupid is just plain stupid
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