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lostangel
Oct 16, 2002, 4:46 PM
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I think this question is opinionated and can only be answered by you.. if you think you are elite because you climb a 5.6 on TR.. well then in your world you are! if you don't think your elite just because you on sited a 5.13d... it just depends who you ask...
My Opinion...
Elite is someone who knows everything about every sort of climbing.... has been climbing a large variety of places, climbing for a long time and loves to do it everyday..
Everyday they pumps their heart into every climb whether its a 5.13 or a 5.6... those people carry an essence around them that makes every climber want to climb more... Anyone agree?
[ This Message was edited by: lostangel on 2002-10-16 09:49 ]
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rushjunkie11
Oct 16, 2002, 9:57 PM
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to paraphrase the late, great, alex lowe:
The best climber in the world is the one who has the most fun.
If you can only climb 5.8 but have an absolutely amazing time doing it, you're elite in my book.
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bigwalling
Oct 17, 2002, 12:49 AM
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DS, I would never consider myself elite. That wasn't what I was asking. I just wondered what some other people think a really good trad climber is.
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merrick
Oct 17, 2002, 1:50 AM
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if you have to ask you are not elite.
it is that simple.
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arostecrux
Oct 17, 2002, 3:26 AM
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I think anyone who approaches climbing with the goal of being "elite" is an unfortunate person. To think that you would spend countless hours pushing yourself to your limits so you might be good enough, through another person's eyes, to be deemed "elite" - meaning you are better than just about everyone around. Its sad to know that there are people out there spending money, time, energy and emotion on a sport (or way of life) that I love, with the goal of being elite.
Those who are elite didn't start climbing with that goal in mind. They just love to climb. They love it so much that one day they were better than everyone else. Not because they consciously wanted to be better, but because they love climbing more and had more fun doing it. You cant will yourself to be a good climber. You can try and close your eyes and hope and pray for God or whoever to grant you the skills necessary to be an elite climber. Or, you could just go out, have fun, push yourself, and one day you might find yourself alone near the top.
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rockprodigy
Oct 17, 2002, 1:51 PM
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I think 5.12 is advanced, but not elite. I think 75% of the population could climb 5.12 trad if they were really motivated to...it doesn't require any special talent, just lot's of practice and fitness. 5.13 is pretty rare though...there's probably less than 100 people in this country who climb trad at that level...I think that actually requires some climbing-specific genes, or not having a job.
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mreardon
Oct 17, 2002, 8:30 PM
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To answer the question posed, I would say that consistently leading 5.12 trad in multiple areas is elite. It does take a special set of skills (learned and/or natural), and not everyone can achieve it, otherwise more would be doing it if it was that easy.
As for when "you" can be considered elite, that's for other's to say. Being in a magazine or having a sponsor doesn't mean you're the best, it merely means you know how to market yourself (Wolfgang Gullich climbed a couple 5.14d 10 years before anyone managed to repeat and it was hardly heard of).
And as for only climbing for yourself and not caring what others think, that's hardly what many professional people climb for. It's a living for them. They promote themselves, and they compete against one another. Peter Croft and John Bachar are very nice people (though Bachar had some arrogance at times), but don't think there wasn't some healthy "friendly" competition going on during their most popular moments a decade ago (or do you really think someone was just walking by with a camera when Bachar soloed "The Gift" and Croft was filmed soloing "Astroman"?). Look at all the major competitors out there, and that's what they're doing, competing. Whether it be against themselves, or others for sponsorship dollars, competition exists. And those that win tend to become what we term "elite".
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bigwalling
Oct 18, 2002, 2:15 AM
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mreardon, I plan on leading 5.12 trad in the next couple years but I don't think I would consider myself elite or that anyone should.
The thing about being sponsored. You are so right! I know a guy who can climb 5.13c trad and he has never had a sponsor. He honestly said he is not the kind of climber that they sponsor. He leads .13d sport, A4+ NW aid(FA), M8/9s, v11/12. I consider that to be elite but I don't think he would.
Don't get the wrong imprestion by me asking this question. I love climbing more than anything(I plan to make a living doing it). The title of the thread is wrong. It was not to consider myself. Sorry for the miscomunication.
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cologman
Oct 18, 2002, 2:50 AM
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My 2 bits; There are old climbers and there are bold climbers... after that I forget.
Having been around the block a bit myself I would side with the ones who are still climbing at whatever grade after 25 - 30 years. The fun is in the doing elite is in the execution.
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wildtrail
Oct 18, 2002, 3:10 AM
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Never. At least I think it is assinine (sorry everybody) to consider yourself "elite". You climb what you can climb, the end.
Am I wrong? I know I can't climb 5.14, but that doesn't make me lower on the totem pole.
I think all the classifications need to be wiped out, along with all the stupid lingo. We are climbers, that's what we are. We all enjoy the same things and the same pleasures.
Just my two cents.
If anything, I would say once you bridge 5.14, exteme alpinism, high altitude mountaineering, that type of thing. That puts you in a low percentage of possible partners.
Steve
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ronniefrown
Oct 18, 2002, 3:18 AM
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"it's lonely at the top" who do you look up to? who do you climb with? when you're dead does it matter anyway?
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cologman
Oct 18, 2002, 3:25 AM
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An example; to some elite might be doing a long trad route like the Casual Rte on the Diamond with your 16 yr. old daughter and have her lead off broadway.
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lightboi
Oct 20, 2002, 5:45 AM
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Elite is when others come to you at the crag and ask you for advice.
Elite is when you see a gumby doing something stupid that will get them killed and you stop them.
Elite is when that gumby hurts themself and you help with the rescure.
Elite is when you no longer care about grades and just climb.
Elite is that old guy who shows up and climbs all the "Hardman routes", then you later find out that he did all the FA's in the 70's while eatin shrooms and drinking red wine from a jug.
josh
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