|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 12:45 AM
Post #1 of 48
(5750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
I didn't know quite where to put this.... but I'm going winter camping in a few nights, and the weather report predicts it will be -10 degrees in the morning. I have a 0 degree rated sleeping bag. If I dress with a LOT of layers (so long as I don't squish the insulation in the bag), and wear a hat and maybe put a fleece blanket in there as a liner, d'ya think I'll be warm enough? Thanks -MC
|
|
|
|
|
el_layclimber
Feb 4, 2008, 12:59 AM
Post #2 of 48
(5741 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2006
Posts: 550
|
A LOT of layers can make you colder. Having too many clothes on can restrict your circulation. When it gets cold enough to matter, I often find I feel warmer with fewer layers on. If you are car camping, throwing regular blankets over the bags works. If you are hardcore, chop a ledge in ice and spoon with your partner. If you have disposable income, this might be a good excuse to get a ridiculous down bag. Oh, a nalgene full of hot water in the foot of the bag is pretty sweet as well.
|
|
|
|
|
MikeSaint
Feb 4, 2008, 1:01 AM
Post #3 of 48
(5740 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 426
|
I have done it with a similar setup. You may not be toasty warm but you wont be shivering. With a hat, you may not a need many layers. One perhaps two sets of heavy weight baselayers may be all you need. A couple of things you should do- 1) Eat a hot filling meal and be hydrated before sleeping. 2) Boil and Boil some more, hot water and put it in your nalgene. Put the nalgene inside your sleeping bag it will act as a heater and will stay heated for awhile. 3) Have a piss bottle inside your tent. You loose a lot of heat going outside to take a leak. Piss in the bottle in the tent, seal it and fuhgettaboutit.
(This post was edited by MikeSaint on Feb 4, 2008, 1:03 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 1:08 AM
Post #4 of 48
(5729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: A LOT of layers can make you colder. Having too many clothes on can restrict your circulation. When it gets cold enough to matter, I often find I feel warmer with fewer layers on. Wow, really? How does that work? If they aren't tight to your body - lets say a tshirt, a sweatshirt, and a windbreaker, some sweatpants and thick socks.... that can only make you warmer right?
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 1:09 AM
Post #5 of 48
(5728 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: I have done it with a similar setup. You may not be toasty warm but you wont be shivering. With a hat, you may not a need many layers. One perhaps two sets of heavy weight baselayers may be all you need. A couple of things you should do- 1) Eat a hot filling meal and be hydrated before sleeping. 2) Boil and Boil some more, hot water and put it in your nalgene. Put the nalgene inside your sleeping bag it will act as a heater and will stay heated for awhile. 3) Have a piss bottle inside your tent. You loose a lot of heat going outside to take a leak. Piss in the bottle in the tent, seal it and fuhgettaboutit. Thanks, that sounds like solid advise. Only, #3 is a bit harder when you're a girl.
|
|
|
|
|
lithiummetalman
Feb 4, 2008, 1:29 AM
Post #6 of 48
(5708 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 286
|
Bring two full length pads (make sure one of the is foam!), you'll sleep warmer.
|
|
|
|
|
redsox5945
Feb 4, 2008, 1:29 AM
Post #7 of 48
(5707 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2007
Posts: 76
|
You'll be fine. I'd wear longjohns and fleece in the sleeping bag. Any wind shells are really unnecessary. The coldest part of the night is right before dawn, so once you start getting cold, it might be time to wake up. Where are you going?
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 2:18 AM
Post #8 of 48
(5693 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: You'll be fine. I'd wear longjohns and fleece in the sleeping bag. Any wind shells are really unnecessary. The coldest part of the night is right before dawn, so once you start getting cold, it might be time to wake up. Where are you going? I'm going to Northern Minnesota where we're having a cold wave. It's supposed to be 13 degrees when we go to sleep at night, and when we wake up, it'll be -10. We might build a quinzhee hut, which supposedly raises the temp. 20 degrees. Is that right? There'll be around 6 people in it. THanks for your help :) -MC
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 2:20 AM
Post #9 of 48
(5689 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: Bring two full length pads (make sure one of the is foam!), you'll sleep warmer. I only have one pad - a 1.75 inch thermarest. and a Tarp. I hope that'll be OK. I know I can build up a snow step to sleep on since that should make me warmer. Thanks, -MC
|
|
|
|
|
binrat
Feb 4, 2008, 2:25 AM
Post #10 of 48
(5688 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2006
Posts: 1155
|
Make sure that the clothes that you do wear are fresh, not the stuff you have been wearing. Also Candle lantern from the ceiling of the tent, have the door slightly open for air. Hat plus a jacket or something thrown over your head.
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 2:32 AM
Post #11 of 48
(5683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: Make sure that the clothes that you do wear are fresh, not the stuff you have been wearing. Also Candle lantern from the ceiling of the tent, have the door slightly open for air. Hat plus a jacket or something thrown over your head. We won't be sleeping in a tent - a quinzhee hut rather. but I will definitely wear a hat. Why not wear stuff I've been wearing? Is that only if it's wet or what? I believe you, I'm just curious. Thanks _MC
|
|
|
|
|
stefanohatari
Feb 4, 2008, 2:34 AM
Post #12 of 48
(5681 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 88
|
monkeychild wrote: I'm going to Northern Minnesota where we're having a cold wave. It's supposed to be 13 degrees when we go to sleep at night, and when we wake up, it'll be -10. We might build a quinzhee hut, which supposedly raises the temp. 20 degrees. Is that right? There'll be around 6 people in it. THanks for your help :) -MC That's not a cold wave in Minnesota, it's a heat wave. I was ice-climbing last week north of Grand Marais, and it was -20 when we got up. And that's still not a cold wave. Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 2:39 AM
Post #13 of 48
(5676 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: That's not a cold wave in Minnesota, it's a heat wave. I was ice-climbing last week north of Grand Marais, and it was -20 when we got up. And that's still not a cold wave. Have fun! Steve You're right. But now that I'm getting into winter camping, the cold is being realized. I'm more worried about sleeping, not about the ice climbing and whatever else I do when I'm awake... and the fact that my bag is rated to 10 degrees warmer than the actual temp. Thanks, -MC
|
|
|
|
|
microbarn
Feb 4, 2008, 3:09 AM
Post #14 of 48
(5667 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2004
Posts: 5920
|
monkeychild wrote: In reply to: Make sure that the clothes that you do wear are fresh, not the stuff you have been wearing. Also Candle lantern from the ceiling of the tent, have the door slightly open for air. Hat plus a jacket or something thrown over your head. We won't be sleeping in a tent - a quinzhee hut rather. but I will definitely wear a hat. Why not wear stuff I've been wearing? Is that only if it's wet or what? I believe you, I'm just curious. Thanks _MC Read his last sentence again. hat plus a jacket or something over your head. It helps immensely to keep your warm breath heating up the next inhalation. I believe using a shell in this manner is more useful then wearing it since they are usually so thin.
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 3:19 AM
Post #15 of 48
(5656 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: Read his last sentence again. hat plus a jacket or something over your head. It helps immensely to keep your warm breath heating up the next inhalation. I believe using a shell in this manner is more useful then wearing it since they are usually so thin. Right, I'll remember that too. OK, this may be a silly question, but If I'm all warm and covered up except for, say, my eyes or something... is it possible to get frostbite that way? I mean, they say not to be out for more than 30 mintues at that temperature, not to have any skin exposed. . . . . . Thanks -MC
|
|
|
|
|
stefanohatari
Feb 4, 2008, 3:22 AM
Post #16 of 48
(5653 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 88
|
A couple more tips: 1) Not just a filling meal, but one with lots of fuel, like butter, oil, proteins. Take some candy with you into the tent, and if you wake up cold, eat some candy. 2) Make sure that everything you are wearing into the bag is dry. 3) Take extra clothes, Crazy Creek, etc. and use them to supplement your pads. 4) Sleep in the middle!
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 3:33 AM
Post #17 of 48
(5637 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: A couple more tips: 1) Not just a filling meal, but one with lots of fuel, like butter, oil, proteins. Take some candy with you into the tent, and if you wake up cold, eat some candy. 2) Make sure that everything you are wearing into the bag is dry. 3) Take extra clothes, Crazy Creek, etc. and use them to supplement your pads. 4) Sleep in the middle! That sounds like great advice too - especially the thing about the candy! A question about #3: SO I should just stick clothes underneath me in my bag to provide extra insulation?
|
|
|
|
|
redsox5945
Feb 4, 2008, 3:41 AM
Post #18 of 48
(5631 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2007
Posts: 76
|
Frostbite occurs exponentially faster in wind. -20 with no wind is really the same as 10 or 15 with a strong wind. If you expect to have any wind, I'd go for a baklava or a coat with a hood with a drawstring. Use sunglasses or glacier goggles to protect your eyes. Minimize any skin exposure. I've never built a shelter, but any will make it warmer, especially if you jam everyone in it to conserve heat. Keep the shelter as tight as possible. Just remember, spooning, not forking.
|
|
|
|
|
monkeychild
Feb 4, 2008, 3:44 AM
Post #19 of 48
(5629 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2007
Posts: 125
|
In reply to: Frostbite occurs exponentially faster in wind. -20 with no wind is really the same as 10 or 15 with a strong wind. If you expect to have any wind, I'd go for a baklava or a coat with a hood with a drawstring. Use sunglasses or glacier goggles to protect your eyes. Minimize any skin exposure. I've never built a shelter, but any will make it warmer, especially if you jam everyone in it to conserve heat. Keep the shelter as tight as possible. Just remember, spooning, not forking. Thanks! I'll be sure to do that. Haha, forking...
|
|
|
|
|
microbarn
Feb 4, 2008, 5:02 AM
Post #20 of 48
(5594 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 12, 2004
Posts: 5920
|
monkeychild wrote: In reply to: Read his last sentence again. hat plus a jacket or something over your head. It helps immensely to keep your warm breath heating up the next inhalation. I believe using a shell in this manner is more useful then wearing it since they are usually so thin. Right, I'll remember that too. OK, this may be a silly question, but If I'm all warm and covered up except for, say, my eyes or something... is it possible to get frostbite that way? I mean, they say not to be out for more than 30 mintues at that temperature, not to have any skin exposed. . . . . . Thanks -MC You still aren't understanding this simple concept. If a jacket, blanket, or sleeping bag covers your entire head, your eyes won't be sticking out at all. I feel that addressing your actual question will lead your mind astray again, but I will answer your question anyways. at -10 your eyes should be fine if the rest of you is kept warm one final thing on covering your head, if you are short enough, you may be able to move toward the foot of your sleeping bag and pull the draw strings of the bag closed so that you are completely covered too.
|
|
|
|
|
andrewbanandrew
Feb 4, 2008, 6:14 AM
Post #21 of 48
(5574 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 441
|
eat a fatty meal before bed, it will help you stay warm
|
|
|
|
|
climbingaggie03
Feb 4, 2008, 7:01 AM
Post #22 of 48
(5564 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2004
Posts: 1173
|
I aggree on the fatty meal, or sometimes I'll take a few drinks of veggie/olive oil before bed. Also, if you have 2 sleeping bags, or can borrow a second. Throw the second bag over the first as a blanket, that should help keep you warm enough. If you buy a cheap closed cell foam pad from walmart (they're usually blue) and put that under your thermarest, that should help insulate and pad you, which will be more comfortable than stuffing clothes under you. No you don't have to worry about frostbite on your exposed flesh at those temps in your tent. The biggest time you'll find you get frost bitten is when it's cold, your skin gets wet, and the wind is blowing. It is a possibility in other conditions, but it's not like just cause it's 10, 20, or 30 below your flesh is going to start freezing instantly. IF you do start to get cold, or your nose/cheeks/fingers/toes get numb and tingly for too long, you should probably get them warm. Enjoy Northern MN though, it's nice up there in the winter time.
|
|
|
|
|
Uncia
Feb 4, 2008, 4:10 PM
Post #23 of 48
(5502 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 3, 2007
Posts: 54
|
Earlier this year I slept in a 25 degree bag and the temps fell to -15. I had my lightweight belay jacket on, hat on, and exp weight long underwear on. I was relatively comfortable all night and got a decent 7 hours of sleep. I couldn't sleep once the temps dropped below -10 and I got up to make breakfast. If your sleeping bag isn't super tight around your body I would recommend wearing warm clothing to extending the range. If some of your clothing ( ie puffy jacket ) doesn't fit inside, I recommend tossing it on top of your bag. Finally, if you are indeed sleeping in a snow cave, don't worry about it.
|
|
|
|
|
stefanohatari
Feb 4, 2008, 4:27 PM
Post #24 of 48
(5484 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 9, 2004
Posts: 88
|
stefanohatari wrote: 3) Take extra clothes, Crazy Creek, etc. and use them to supplement your pads.
monkeychild wrote: That sounds like great advice too - especially the thing about the candy! A question about #3: SO I should just stick clothes underneath me in my bag to provide extra insulation? Just to clarify--by "extra clothes," I meant clothes you have with you anyway but aren't sleeping in. I put them between my bag and my pad (assuming I'm in a tent with a floor and they won't get wet). BTW, your Thermarest is full-length, isn't it? edited to fix the quotations
(This post was edited by stefanohatari on Feb 4, 2008, 4:31 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
dingus
Feb 4, 2008, 4:27 PM
Post #25 of 48
(5484 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17398
|
2 comments: 1. Sleeping with your head inside the sleeping bag ups the moisture content retained in the bag BIG TIME. Maybe not an issue on night one. But for multiple nights out keeping your sleeping bag dry and/or getting it dried out during the day is very important. 2. I have found a single sleeping pad to be inadequate for sleeping on the snow. I recommend two sleeping pads. The seeping ground cold has to be experienced to be fully understood. It doesn't get you at 11 PM. It haunts you at 3 am. DMT
|
|
|
|
|
|