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linvillelover
Mar 3, 2008, 11:14 PM
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can some of you go over the organization and details of the powerpoint and/ or the belay station on some of the multi-pitch climbing?
i find i get a big clutter once i count the anchor, my personal attachment, the belay configuration and then the second person's attachment..
Some descriptions, diagrams, or pictures would be great.. im trying to keep it simple and organized but backed up and mombproof at the same time.
thanks.
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ja1484
Mar 3, 2008, 11:45 PM
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momproof? Is your mother really that much of a hassle that she free-solos up 5th class climbs to check on you?
Anyway, regarding organization at the belay, develop a system and practice practice practice. The rack goes here. The rope is coiled over this or stacked here. This carabiner is my attachment. That carabiner is the second's attachment. Etc.
When you boil down to it, most anchors are fairly straightforward if you're not going overboard with unnecessary additions...unfortunately, unnecessary is typically the beginner's middle name.
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linvillelover
Mar 4, 2008, 12:35 AM
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yes.. bombproof is the correct word.
the thing is, ive found that most situations are different.
everything from building an anchor with trad pro and using the equalized cord with a single powerpoint.
to a huge ledge with a few trees pre-slung..
to the bolted, sport multi-pitch climbs here. it seems different every time.
just looking for what others do, where what goes where, do you anchor yourself with a daisy/ PAS/ or a clove hitch on the main rope? do you clip a single bolt or do you go to the main point?
etc etc..
just give me your opinions and examples.
thanks!
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ja1484
Mar 4, 2008, 1:02 AM
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linvillelover wrote: yes.. bombproof is the correct word. the thing is, ive found that most situations are different. everything from building an anchor with trad pro and using the equalized cord with a single powerpoint. to a huge ledge with a few trees pre-slung.. to the bolted, sport multi-pitch climbs here. it seems different every time. just looking for what others do, where what goes where, do you anchor yourself with a daisy/ PAS/ or a clove hitch on the main rope? do you clip a single bolt or do you go to the main point? etc etc.. just give me your opinions and examples. thanks!
Differences don't really matter, because there are characteristics common to all anchors, and these are what you base your system off of.
Every anchor has a power point. Every anchor has a way in which you have attached yourself to it. Look for the constants. These are the things that will allow you to adapt efficiently and easily to unexpected situations.
The following covers *most* situations swapping leads during trad. There are exceptions, which is exactly why it's important to learn concepts, not examples so you can adjust.
I myself almost always use an equallette, regardless of anchoring situations. Obviously, it's *very* fast to set up on bolts or gear, and in the event of a massive bomber tree, I simply loop the equallette around the back of it and tie off the two "legs" on either side to for the powerpoint.
I attach myself to the powerpoint with a bight8 into a locker and use a purcell prussik to adjust my attitude to the anchor (comfort, convenience, etc.) The purcell runs double duty as my anchor tether when rappelling.
I typically belay directly off the anchor, coiling the rope over my purcell. When the second pauses to clean, I use my free (non-belaying) hand to begin organizing whatever leftover rack I have on one arm of the anchor. This way, it's nice and pretty and ready for my partner to pick up what he wants when he arrives at the belay.
Once my partner arrives at the belay, he ties off with a bight8 into a locker on the powerpoint. While he is re-racking, I rearrange the belay to a direct belay off my harness redirected through the anchor so I am ready to belay his lead on the next pitch. Once we're ready, off he goes.
Repeat until we get to the top.
Edit: Just so you're clear, I typically never have more than four carabiners on the powerpoint, and I rarely find things to be cluttered.
Some common anchor misconceptions:
- You do not need a locker on every piece of gear/bolt in the anchor. Assuming it's redundant, non-lockers are fine. I typically find a middle ground by applying a single locker to one bolt/the most bomber piece of gear and using non-locked stuff on the rest.
- You do not need to run the rope through two carabiners at the powerpoint unless you're shy on lockers and have to oppose two standards. A single locker is fine.
- You do not need to tie off 2 enormous trees, a boulder, and a cam for a belay anchor. If the tree is large, alive, and obviously well-rooted (i.e. in good soil), your gear will break long before you manage to uproot the monster. Tie off the tree redundantly and get on with your day.
- Don't go shit crazy over equalization. You can never have a perfectly equalized anchor, ever. Friction sees to that. What you can have, very easily almost all the time, is an anchor stronger than Zeus. Remember, up until a couple years ago, the cordelette was what EVERYONE used, and it provides almost no equalization. Very few people died because the GEAR was strong, and bomber gear can outmuscle damn near anything, even the infamous Factor Two Fall, most all the time.
Build it strong and redundant. Equalization is gravy you can take if it's easy, but don't waste 15 minutes with some fancy-ass spiderman rigging. No Extension is hardly ever an issue, because properly rigged trad anchors rarely involve rigging that allows for significant extension anyway.
Hope some of that helps.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Mar 4, 2008, 1:23 AM)
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shockabuku
Mar 4, 2008, 1:34 AM
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ja1484 wrote: [Differences don't really matter, because there are characteristics common to all anchors, and these are what you base your system off of. The following covers *most* situations swapping leads during trad. There are exceptions, which is exactly why it's important to learn concepts, not examples so you can adjust.
Most people who aren't experts learn concepts through generalizing examples.
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deltav
Mar 4, 2008, 1:37 AM
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Similarly speaking, I use an eight on a bite to tie in. I belay off of the shelf of the anchor. This helps keep things clean. I have the rack on one leg, and a biner already set for my second.
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ja1484
Mar 4, 2008, 1:42 AM
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shockabuku wrote: ja1484 wrote: [Differences don't really matter, because there are characteristics common to all anchors, and these are what you base your system off of. The following covers *most* situations swapping leads during trad. There are exceptions, which is exactly why it's important to learn concepts, not examples so you can adjust. Most people who aren't experts learn concepts through generalizing examples.
Indeed, which is why I did my best to describe an example.
I just wanted to be very clear about where the education should be headed in the end. Examples are nice, but the why of it is what matters.
Furthermore, though this place is a decent supplementary source of information (if you can sort the wheat from the chaff, which is a skill in its own right...), it's not the place to learn about anchor construction. That should be done under the tutelage of an able and knowledgeable climber or guide, and with plenty of reading up in the texts (Anchors 2nd Ed, Rock Climbing Anchors: Comprehensive Guide, etc.)
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shockabuku
Mar 4, 2008, 2:06 AM
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ja1484 wrote: Furthermore, though this place is a decent supplementary source of information (if you can sort the wheat from the chaff, which is a skill in its own right...), it's not the place to learn about anchor construction.
For sure.
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