|
palidon11
Apr 19, 2008, 1:47 PM
Post #1 of 22
(2761 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2007
Posts: 63
|
as of right now i'm completely out of shape when it comes to climbing, and i'm somewhat of a beginner but i've been doing alot of routes with crimpers (in the gym and at the crag).
i find it puts alot of strain on my fingers (of course) but i'm wondering if i should crimp as little as possible until i get into better shape. i'm pretty worried about injuring myself, and i don't want to have to take time out to recover. how hard should i push it? would taping help? how would i go about strengthening tendons? i hear its a lengthy process
i did some searching and i didn't really find what i was looking for.
thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
rockforlife
Apr 19, 2008, 2:44 PM
Post #2 of 22
(2742 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 14, 2002
Posts: 563
|
are you talking about an open had crip or crip with the thumb on top....or just crimping over all
|
|
|
|
|
palidon11
Apr 19, 2008, 2:53 PM
Post #3 of 22
(2730 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2007
Posts: 63
|
either
usually when i crimp its open handed, sometimes i use the thumb, but not unless i have to
|
|
|
|
|
8flood8
Apr 19, 2008, 2:57 PM
Post #4 of 22
(2728 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 1436
|
you will know if you are overtraining your crimp the next morning when you wake up with an unclenchable fist.
|
|
|
|
|
Sin
Apr 19, 2008, 3:53 PM
Post #5 of 22
(2707 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 236
|
Well it probably isnt to good to do crips.....But crimps are alright. Still, try to grab a variety of holds so your hands and arms get a good work out. Dont just stick to crimps, and stay away from crips, Blood.
Peace out,
-Sin
|
|
|
|
|
rtwilli4
Apr 19, 2008, 5:02 PM
Post #6 of 22
(2675 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
|
my advice would be to climb what you want within your limits. If your fingers are sore then take a few weeks off. If they don't get any better than its probably your tendons.
I have developed very minor tendonitis (i think) but still climb hard. It is just neccessary for me to take one to two weeks off at a time. I think it's going to take a full month or more to completely recover.
As for training, be careful. I have not done much training in the area of finger strength, but you can do more damage here than good if you over do it. Try and find an article in a climbing magazine about finger boards. I know that a Rock and Ice mag came out not long ago called "the health issue." I'm not at a place where i can buy Rock and Ice but i would assume it mentions this in there somewhere.
I know i read an article on it in the past and was surprised at how little time you should spend on a finger board when starting out.
Hope i helped... i think i really just rambled :)
|
|
|
|
|
joswald
Apr 19, 2008, 10:38 PM
Post #7 of 22
(2556 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 64
|
You can't crimp open handed. they are totally opposite things.
|
|
|
|
|
joswald
Apr 19, 2008, 10:41 PM
Post #8 of 22
(2554 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 64
|
Do you mean do you crimp or half crimp?
|
|
|
|
|
JAB
Apr 20, 2008, 12:10 PM
Post #9 of 22
(2462 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 373
|
You should be just fine as long as you feel "out of shape", because you are not strong enough to hurt yourself. The risk increases a lot when you start feeling strong, and really start pushing your limits. I climbed for 3 years with no problems, but injured my index fingers when I repeatedly started dynoing onto small crimps.
|
|
|
|
|
Rufsen
Apr 20, 2008, 8:28 PM
Post #10 of 22
(2409 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2008
Posts: 126
|
This is true. I'm stronger than i have ever been right now. And It's tempting to keep pushing myself, but i know i'll break something if i do that.
|
|
|
|
|
seatbeltpants
Apr 20, 2008, 9:04 PM
Post #11 of 22
(2398 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 581
|
JAB wrote: You should be just fine as long as you feel "out of shape", because you are not strong enough to hurt yourself. The risk increases a lot when you start feeling strong, and really start pushing your limits. I climbed for 3 years with no problems, but injured my index fingers when I repeatedly started dynoing onto small crimps.
i've been climbing for all of four months and am getting over some tendonitis right now - climbing three times a week built up my forearm muscles enough in less than three months to damage the associated tendons. my physio said that this was a really common timeframe.
watch out for any non-muscle pain or discomfort, and make sure you rest enough between climbing days. if there is any residual soreness a day or two after climbing it's probably far better to take another day off to ensure you're fully recovered than to try to go hard and bust something.
steve
|
|
|
|
|
MonkeyInTraining
Apr 20, 2008, 9:26 PM
Post #12 of 22
(2389 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 139
|
My arms hurt from to much crimping after a few months of climbing. I took a week off and it helped but the pain returned after a few days of climbing. I tried to climb less often then the 4-5 hard sessions a week I was doing. I had less pain, but I was still suffering and so was my climbing ability.
I had a back injury and was forced to take 3 weeks off. When I got back to climbing my arm pain was gone and has stayed away as I have climbed for 3 months since then and advanced a few grades bouldering.
My point is that once the tendon's start hurting they are not going to stop unless you let them heal fully, doing this will make them stronger. Not letting them recover and strengthen in the process is probably going to lead to continued pain. I don't actually know, I haven't gone there, nor do I want to.
I could barely stand the 3 weeks but the day I went back to the gym I was climbing harder then before, and could crimp much harder. I think the break is worth it for new climbers that push hard and find they have stressed those finger tendons. But I dunno if its going to work out that way for everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
bdbc
Apr 21, 2008, 11:16 PM
Post #13 of 22
(2279 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 3, 2007
Posts: 103
|
i don't think there is anything wrong with crimping. honestly, its probably the only time you have your hand in that type of configuration, and so its really the only way (i think someone please correct me if i'm wrong) to increase your crimping strength. that being said, i stay away from doing crimp pull-ups outside of doing routes, to avoid un-do stress. i have messed up tendons several times in the past (not on crimps) and so i know from experience that rest is the best medicine if you start hurting.
(This post was edited by bdbc on Apr 21, 2008, 11:17 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
EPiCJAMES
Apr 22, 2008, 12:08 AM
Post #14 of 22
(2255 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 391
|
just take the crimpers easy. look for some sloper problems, and take your time working your feet. you don't need to blow though the grades. your body will adapt, taping will help support weak fingers if taped right, but you shouldn't be pushing that hard for years to come. only climbing time will strengthen those tendons. it takes years for them to adapt.
|
|
|
|
|
phUnk
Apr 22, 2008, 5:32 AM
Post #15 of 22
(2173 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 8, 2007
Posts: 35
|
bdbc wrote: i don't think there is anything wrong with crimping. honestly, its probably the only time you have your hand in that type of configuration, and so its really the only way (i think someone please correct me if i'm wrong) to increase your crimping strength.
|
|
|
|
|
jto
Apr 22, 2008, 6:30 AM
Post #16 of 22
(2154 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 272
|
Taping doesnīt support the joint, this is proven in a study. If giving any more than support for the mind the tape should be extremely tight and absolutely non-stretch so it would be impossible to climb or do anything with that finger anyway.
Static strength training like climbing grips are very joint angle dependant. Carryover is only 10-15 degrees both ways so openhand training improves mainly openhand grips and crimping does the most good for crimping. This is also been proven many times in my own workouts as well as with many other climbers.
Iīve never injured a joint or pulley when crimping and the best hangboard crimps have been 10 seconds hangs on a ― inch edge with additional 90 lbs hanging from my waist (I weigh 185 lbs myself) so the loads have been quite serious. Then again Iīve had 3 finger injuries during my climbing career of 6 years and all have occurred during openhanded gripping.
So: train grip strength in many different joint angles and hold types to avoid any weak links in your system. Why should you limit the grips to a certain type only? Be strong all over. Variation in grip types as well as wall angles and route/boulder lengths are very important in developing abilities but also preventing injuries.
One very important thing to add in everybodys climbing regimen is a light week very common in all other sports. If you usually climb 5 times a week, cut down the volume and do only 2 sessions and keep the volume a bit lower than usual. So if your normal sessions takes 3 hours, take one off.
Depending of the phase the lighter week should be every third or fourth week. It is also a very good mental rest as well as physical and after a break the climbing goes very well.
Cheers.
(This post was edited by jto on Apr 22, 2008, 6:40 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
roninthorne
Apr 22, 2008, 9:08 AM
Post #17 of 22
(2119 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 659
|
jto wrote: Taping doesnīt support the joint, this is proven in a study.
While the rest of jto's post was very accurate and informative, I'll point out that, like most "studies", the conclusions of this one are inconclusive (even if it was in one of the rags, I won't even begin to point out their paradoxes and contradictions) and will likely be reversed in a few years (like the predictions as to whether "global warming" will cause the icecaps to melt or freeze the planet solid).
Some of the finest athletes in the world tape assorted joints. While not one of the world's finest athlete's at much of anything, I have been taping my fingers for years, as has my climbing partner, and I feel very strongly, based on experience, that it actually does help. There are several excellent books which include information on how to correctly tape your fingers for tendon support. Check it out for yourself, and if it feels like it helps you, do it.
That said, it is also my understanding (from a background in molecular biology and from extensive study) that the most important basal tendon development takes place between the ages of 16 and 23. You may later strengthen your tendons, but the base tendon mass is going to have been there or not dependent on what you did during that time. If you were fairly athletic or had a job requiring increased hand strength on a regular basis (construction, weaver, sculptor, ninja, etc), then you will have a natural tendon base which will be much more resistant to injury and stress, and much more responsive to training and strengthening than if you were in the chess club, on the debate team and spent most of your time playing video games.
Most important overall is get in shape, don't overgrip, and don't overtrain on plastic. Plastic, with its enhanced texture and the competitive social setting in which it is frequently found, causes more tendon injuries than anything except maybe the crimp-laden routes on Mt. Lemmon.
|
|
|
|
|
engr
Apr 22, 2008, 8:26 PM
Post #18 of 22
(2059 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 6, 2004
Posts: 14
|
jto wrote: ..and the best hangboard crimps have been 10 seconds hangs on a ― inch edge with additional 90 lbs hanging from my waist (I weigh 185 lbs myself) so the loads have been quite serious.
So 1/2" edge is about 1/2 pad. That is a very impressive hang. What level do you boulder Jto?
|
|
|
|
|
jto
Apr 23, 2008, 11:25 AM
Post #19 of 22
(1972 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 272
|
I admit being a bit radical in my saying the taping wonīt help a bit as I do it myself and have seen benefits. The main point of that sentence was maybe that if you want to support a pulley you mecanically canīt unless the taping is totally and mindbogglingly tight.
That is true and the reason for this is that the joint is so small andmovement restricted have to be that too itīs quite impossible to really support the pulleys. In other sports taping is usually done in bigger joints so itīs easier to support them. One efficient way is to move the stress point in the joint by taping. This also has an unfortunate down side too as an inflammation or injury might spread.
I tape usually to restrict the movement of the joint so it wonīt be able to bend that much at all. Anyway more tape goes to protect my skin as it gets pretty damn sore even if I still have the strength to go on. This happens especially with the big holds and skin between the 2nd and 3rd joint. So Iīll have to use the small ones only hahahaa...
About my bouldering? Well I prefer very overhanging, dynamic routes with ridiculously small crimps... in that point I usually wake up  My grades arenīt that important and Iīm much weaker at hangboard nowadays but I climb better. So I really donīt use it unless I have no other choises or just in a supporting role few times a year.
|
|
|
|
|
on_belay_hombre
Apr 23, 2008, 11:46 AM
Post #20 of 22
(1966 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 105
|
I agree with taking breaks to give the tendons time to catch up/heal. I was pushing my limits and climbing hard 3 days a week last summer, then one day "pop!" and I ruptured the right ring finger pulley on a warm up problem. With all the climbing and other activities my tendons never got a break and I think they just gave up. 
It's healed now but I still tape it and it gets a bit sore after hard crimping. My advice: push your limits but give your body time to catch up by either not climbing or traversing or just doing laps on jug hauls.
|
|
|
|
|
palidon11
Apr 23, 2008, 2:11 PM
Post #21 of 22
(1925 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2007
Posts: 63
|
i havn't checked this thread for a couple days, thanks for all the helpful replies!
In reply to: That said, it is also my understanding (from a background in molecular biology and from extensive study) that the most important basal tendon development takes place between the ages of 16 and 23. You may later strengthen your tendons, but the base tendon mass is going to have been there or not dependent on what you did during that time. If you were fairly athletic or had a job requiring increased hand strength on a regular basis (construction, weaver, sculptor, ninja, etc), then you will have a natural tendon base which will be much more resistant to injury and stress, and much more responsive to training and strengthening than if you were in the chess club, on the debate team and spent most of your time playing video games.
what if i'm in that period right now? currently 17 (almost 18), i've definitely been active but i haven't really ever needed much finger or hand strength.
|
|
|
|
|
jto
Apr 23, 2008, 5:26 PM
Post #22 of 22
(1869 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 272
|
I speak very for high volume submax climbing to build up tendon strength as well as muscular abilities. The muscles respond to higher force yes, but also to higher volume. I would alternate phases of both.
When you stress volume the problems should start to feel very hard because of the volume and not the too hard moves. When the volume is cut down and the problems are getting harder itīs the opposite of course. In both phases the light weeks every 3rd or 4th are crucial for mental and physical recuperation.
Just an example of the first basic phase (hypothetical max about V7):
In the start of the phase one:
Can do 10 V4īs in a workout giving 2-3 attempts per route and being quite tired in the end.
In the end of the phase one:
Can do 20 V4+/5īs in a workout giving 2-3 attempts per route being the same level tired in the end as after above workout. Or can do the starting workout very easily all in first attempt.
The length of this basic phase can be about two to three months depending on how you build them. Too short phases develope nothing and too long ones make you lose the edge. the peaking phase is usually a bit shorter.
During both phases it would be a good idea to maintain the other even a bit so do harder stuff once a week in the basic phase and some volume during the peaking phase.
Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
