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j_ung
Apr 25, 2008, 4:55 PM
Post #126 of 160
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jt512 wrote: j_ung wrote: jmeizis wrote: Damn, guess I don't meet the AMGA definition of a guide. Damn, I only soloed 5.9 in the sun while wearing rock shoes. You win again. Tell ya what you find a grade V 5.10c in Colorado Springs and a client for me to lead up it and I'll french free that shit all day. Unfortunately the biggest thing here that people are interested in is little 3 pitch climbs. Maybe I'm being ass, which tends to happen from time to time, but I was hired, as a guide, to lead people up whatever the hell they wanted. Now if that means they want to climb Kor's Corner (5.12a) then I ain't leading that trip. If they want to do single pitch sport I have the technical skills for that. If they want to do multipitch trad, I have the technical skills for that. Ice climbs, Snow couliours, alpine rock, hiking, backpacking, camping, easy aid climbs, toproping, I'm capable of "guiding" or "instructing" or "leading" all that. If that whole post is true, then actually, you do meet the AMGA's definition of a guide. You're just not certified. It's not true. He's parodying a line I once wrote about a guide being able to free solo 5.9 trad in the rain in approach shoes. Additionally, I think an AMGA rock guide would be expected to free climb 5.10c. Jay
I got that. I was referring to the three-pitch part. Have fun with this, kids. I'm out.
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jt512
Apr 25, 2008, 5:07 PM
Post #127 of 160
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jmeizis wrote: My free climbing ability just isn't up to par with any of my other climbing ability.
Unless you're guiding a big wall, is there some other kind of climbing ability that counts?
Jay
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jmeizis
Apr 25, 2008, 5:24 PM
Post #128 of 160
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Well, it wouldn't matter much if I could climb 5.15 if I didn't know how to build an anchor. How to pass a knot, how to escape a belay, all that technical ropework. Being able to do it efficiently is another skill. They're just skills that go hand in hand with climbing ability. I think they're pretty important in terms of safety and general enjoyment of climbing.
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limeydave
Apr 25, 2008, 5:34 PM
Post #129 of 160
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jmeizis wrote: It was only a partial parody. I only free soloed a 5.9 sport route in rock shoes on a nice windy day. I think Jay is also right about the free climbing standard. I could follow it, but not lead it, just not that good...yet. My free climbing ability just isn't up to par with any of my other climbing ability. As for legality of certifications and such, there are no federal requirements requiring AMGA or other certification. Insurance wise I believe it gets one lower premiums but I don't know that for sure. Certain state require you have their certifications, Maine and NY are the only two states that I know of and NY has some silly standards that were obviously established about 50 years ago.
That's the thing - no federal standards.
Climbing is a culture as well as a sport, and that culture traditionally dislikes federal and state mandates on our pastime.
I'm not saying certification of guides is a bad thing, but be careful what you wish for folks.
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camhead
Apr 25, 2008, 6:01 PM
Post #130 of 160
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jmeizis wrote: Well, it wouldn't matter much if I could climb 5.15 if I didn't know how to build an anchor. How to pass a knot, how to escape a belay, all that technical ropework. Being able to do it efficiently is another skill. They're just skills that go hand in hand with climbing ability. I think they're pretty important in terms of safety and general enjoyment of climbing.
Hey, I may be going out on a limb here, but I would venture to say that it is MUCH easier to learn to "escape a belay, build anchors, technical ropework" than it is to climb 5.15. Or 5.14, or 5.13.
However, muchos props on knowing how to pass a knot. I had to pass a kidney stone the other day, and that was bad enough!
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Rocknovice
Apr 25, 2008, 6:24 PM
Post #131 of 160
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WVUCLMBR wrote: Is there some test/certification I can take to not be a n00b anymore? I don't want to be a guide or anything. I just want to move on to the level between n00b and hardman.
I would like to see a flow chart or a Venn diagram that maps this transition out:
Green rookie ~ noob ~ gumby ~ climber ~ hardman etc.
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limeydave
Apr 25, 2008, 6:54 PM
Post #132 of 160
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Rocknovice wrote: WVUCLMBR wrote: Is there some test/certification I can take to not be a n00b anymore? I don't want to be a guide or anything. I just want to move on to the level between n00b and hardman. I would like to see a flow chart or a Venn diagram that maps this transition out: Green rookie ~ noob ~ gumby ~ climber ~ hardman etc.
Perhaps we could run the crags like american airlines with Pleb/Gold/Platinum/Executive Platinum/Jay status levels for priority boarding of the local moderates.
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WVUCLMBR
Apr 25, 2008, 6:59 PM
Post #133 of 160
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Gear shops should also test buyers on the gear they are buying....serious...I have some gear I have no idea how to use....I keep gettin my weewee caught in my grigri.
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yokese
Apr 26, 2008, 12:22 AM
Post #136 of 160
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Ok, maybe a bit of thread drift, but I'l chime in with the requirements to access to the Climbing Guide training course in Spain, which is a second level speciality of a three-level guiding certifications system.
Sorry for the broken English, I'm translating as I read it:
Complete a mountain ascent with a cumulative altitude gain of at least 1,500m (around 5,000 feet) carrying a 10kg backpack (22 pounds) in less than a given time (variable depending on the hike, but for what I heard it's usually tough).
Then, climb 5 routes:
2 sport routes of at least 25m (82 feet) and 7a (11d)
2 trad routes of at least 25m and 6b (10c)
One aid route of at least 25m and A2 (clean)
At least one of the 7a sport routes has to be onsighted.
The others can be either onsighted or redpointed, but there is a maximum time per route (it varies among routes).
The time, style (redpoint or onsight) and proper selection of gear to climb each route will be taken into account for the final score.
Keep in mind that that's just to access to the 630 hours training course to get the certification. For what I heard, not all the students pass the final exam. I can post a link to the contents of the training if someone is interested. I believe this is pretty much the standard all over Europe.
By the way, those are the requirements for Climbing Guide course access. That certification does not cover high altitude mountaneering or alpine routes. For those kind of ascents, there are different (and tougher) certifications.
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jmeizis
Apr 26, 2008, 1:08 AM
Post #137 of 160
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What's that kid got in his mouth?
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limeydave
Apr 26, 2008, 1:12 AM
Post #138 of 160
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jmeizis wrote: What's that kid got in his mouth?
Humble Pie
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wanderlustmd
Apr 26, 2008, 1:19 AM
Post #139 of 160
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jt512 wrote: jmeizis wrote: My free climbing ability just isn't up to par with any of my other climbing ability. Unless you're guiding a big wall, is there some other kind of climbing ability that counts? Jay
Ice climbing.
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jmeizis
Apr 26, 2008, 2:52 AM
Post #140 of 160
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Sounds tasty, wanna share some?
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stymingersfink
Apr 26, 2008, 4:28 AM
Post #142 of 160
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wanderlustmd wrote: jt512 wrote: jmeizis wrote: My free climbing ability just isn't up to par with any of my other climbing ability. Unless you're guiding a big wall, is there some other kind of climbing ability that counts? Jay Ice climbing. 
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zeke_sf
Apr 26, 2008, 5:09 AM
Post #143 of 160
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jmeizis wrote: What's that kid got in his mouth?
It's popsicle for the big boy, who's a big boy?
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cracklover
May 5, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #144 of 160
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I dunno. I have a funny feeling about all of this. I mean, I think a real guide, doing things right, is a lot less of a strain on the resource than a gumby like me can be.
I just got back from a week in Moab. Had a great time, and was on both sides of this fence. What do you think of these two cases?
I did a climbing clinic in Indian Creek last weekend. The guides I worked with were very careful not to monopolize the three star classics. While we did get on things like Swedin Ringle, Battle of the Bulge, etc, they were always super-careful to offer to pull the ropes/give a TR ride to anyone in the area, and as soon as we were done with something, they made sure it got cleaned. I think we mostly had three ropes up for six clients (maybe four ropes once, not sure of that). So that's really not too bad.
On the other hand, the next weekend I took my fiancee up Castleton. Saturday morning, we were the first to get on the Northeast Chimney. The climbing was at the edge of our respective abilities (damn I wish someone would replace that bolt), and we took all damn day on it. When the couple behind us decided they'd had enough waiting, sure, we let them pass us, but it was a little bit of a clusterfuck for a short time, and I'm sure it didn't improve their day. And how many other parties decided to bail on the that uber-classic route, because we were bumbling our way up it?
GO
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LarryHorwitz
May 5, 2008, 8:09 PM
Post #145 of 160
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Everyone knows the rule. First come, first served. If you don't want to wait on the group go elsewhere...or get to the 'classic' you want first. You'd be pissed if a group of 2 asked to climb through your route too.
Groups can be a pain...but the more people that climb the better as far as I'm concerned. If I really want to be alone i don't go to Rumney. Try the ADKs in the backcountry or head to cannon.
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tomcat
May 5, 2008, 9:10 PM
Post #146 of 160
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Cracklover.What is wrong with climbing at the edge of your respective abilities....nothing!
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Gmburns2000
May 5, 2008, 10:15 PM
Post #147 of 160
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cracklover wrote: On the other hand, the next weekend I took my fiancee up Castleton. GO
Congrats Gabe.
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southswell
May 6, 2008, 5:00 AM
Post #148 of 160
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If your not on the rock or changing climbers, and other climbers are interested in climbing the route, give it up...period. If your going to lead a group through a climb, get everyone through 1 climb at a time. You said yourself, there are hundreds of climbs, go find another.
group or no, we all have limeted time to climb. we all get up at 5am to climb. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing an empty rope on a popular climb.
Empty ropes are for gyms.
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quiteatingmysteak
May 6, 2008, 5:17 AM
Post #149 of 160
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Why not just climb in a gym? Can't you toprope crowded routes there?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I'm so glad I live in California.
Crab, cut the drama. Your climbing at a sport cliff at the warmup wall. Might as well go to the REI used gear sale and complain about the crowds.
lol.
Corson, you sound like a cool guy. I like climbing with other groups if they are cool. Sometimes I've been known to share beers.
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southswell
May 6, 2008, 5:34 AM
Post #150 of 160
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WVUCLMBR wrote: I had to sit on a ledge @ Seneca last weekend for over an hour b/c I was nice/stupid and let a guy and his 2 clients jump ahead of me and the wife on a climb where the last pitch is shared by 3-4 routes. This guy actually had the balls to "teach" his "clients" how to rap from the traffic jam rap station. Backed up about 3-4 groups. Climbers need to act like golfers sometimes and let faster groups "play through". I'm all for teachin'/learnin', but don't be a crag Nazi.
Cocksuckers like that guide are the scourge of climbing. Anyone...ANYONE climbing a multipitch climb should be proficient in belay, rappel and self rescue. What he did was negligent and blatantly irresponsible. Someone there should have scolded him in front of his clients/friends and exposed him for the dipshit he is. This is why I go to great lengths to find (and or time) climbs so that I can guarantee our solitude.
I am constantly shocked at the level of "expertise" that is displayed by so called "rock climbing guides". And furthermore, these asshats exponentially breed more asshats just like them. Just what we need: Team Asshat balling up the crags.
(This post was edited by southswell on May 6, 2008, 5:36 AM)
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