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zeke_sf
May 9, 2008, 12:57 AM
Post #51 of 74
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Man, there are a lot of teary eyes in this thread. The OP must be the worst person in the entire world.
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shanz
May 9, 2008, 1:18 AM
Post #52 of 74
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this kinda of thread drives me back to drinking. Is 100 bucks or less really worth human life? Damn maybe instead of posting here the the time could be better spent - hell burger king at minimum wage pays enough that a new harness could be bought for less than 2 days worth of work at a job. Of course there swallowing pride flipping burgers or letting go of the old harness to save your ass
"decline of the human race = not having a small amount of common sense"
(This post was edited by shanz on May 9, 2008, 1:20 AM)
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ja1484
May 9, 2008, 1:21 AM
Post #53 of 74
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knudenoggin wrote: jungle_george wrote: Looked down and saw my belay loop was ripped about 1/5 of the way through. ... I'm thinking about a loop of 9/16" webbing tied with a water knot. It's interesting to read all of the gung-ho, throw-da-bum-out replies, which were to be expected. It was either Kolin Powick of BDEL (I think) or Sterling_Jim who tested belay loops with increasingly severe cut-throughs to assess their strength: they are VERY strong. (This was done following the tragic death from an old, worn loop.) So, you're fine w/what you plan to do, adding a simple back-up, for peace of mind. *kN*
It was KP, after Todd Skinner's death and the resulting belay loop paranoia.
Anyone who's interested can see the data here:
http://www.bdel.com/...p_archive.php#102706
FWIW, even though the belay loop is likely still stronger than it would ever need to be and a backup would work, I'd still replace the harness.
But that's just me.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on May 9, 2008, 1:24 AM)
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angry
May 9, 2008, 1:23 AM
Post #54 of 74
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shanz wrote: this kinda of thread drives me back to drinking. Is 100 bucks or less really worth human life? Damn maybe instead of posting here the the time could be better spent - hell burger king at minimum wage pays enough that a new harness could be bought for less than 2 days worth of work at a job. Of course there swallowing pride flipping burgers or letting go of the old harness to save your ass "decline of the human race = not having a small amount of common sense"
When the OP does decide to retire it, he should send it in to Adatesman to pull it apart. Who wants to wager what it'll hold. My money is at 15kn.
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ja1484
May 9, 2008, 1:28 AM
Post #55 of 74
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angry wrote: shanz wrote: this kinda of thread drives me back to drinking. Is 100 bucks or less really worth human life? Damn maybe instead of posting here the the time could be better spent - hell burger king at minimum wage pays enough that a new harness could be bought for less than 2 days worth of work at a job. Of course there swallowing pride flipping burgers or letting go of the old harness to save your ass "decline of the human race = not having a small amount of common sense" When the OP does decide to retire it, he should send it in to Adatesman to pull it apart. Who wants to wager what it'll hold. My money is at 15kn.
I betcha it does 21.
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shanz
May 9, 2008, 1:33 AM
Post #56 of 74
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ja1484 wrote: angry wrote: shanz wrote: this kinda of thread drives me back to drinking. Is 100 bucks or less really worth human life? Damn maybe instead of posting here the the time could be better spent - hell burger king at minimum wage pays enough that a new harness could be bought for less than 2 days worth of work at a job. Of course there swallowing pride flipping burgers or letting go of the old harness to save your ass "decline of the human race = not having a small amount of common sense" When the OP does decide to retire it, he should send it in to Adatesman to pull it apart. Who wants to wager what it'll hold. My money is at 15kn. I betcha it does 21.
guess thats what sets me apart i dont bet on my life and dont encourage others to do so. 15kn ill still spend the money - 9 years as a concert rigger 1 harness a year average sometimes more- applications are a lot harder rigging than climbing but the risk is still the same
(This post was edited by shanz on May 9, 2008, 1:36 AM)
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knudenoggin
May 9, 2008, 3:05 AM
Post #57 of 74
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In reply to: this sounds familiar.... like Todd Skinner if i recal correctly his belay loop too worn but he decided to climb on it because he was planning on recieving a new one. and everybody knows where the story goes from there.
actions, the OP is noting the damage, checking test data of similar damage,
AND providing a strong back-up.
shanz wrote: guess thats what sets me apart i dont bet on my life and dont encourage others to do so. 15kn ill still spend the money
you figure that 1 year or maybe less is the right point? --why not every
4 months (the How much is your life worth? challenge applies just as well)?
So, we check on testing of some severe cuts, and find that reassuring;
AND there is a back-up of typical anchor strength, to boot.
What are the gambling odds, then?!
*kN*
(This post was edited by knudenoggin on May 9, 2008, 4:29 PM)
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angry
May 9, 2008, 3:09 AM
Post #58 of 74
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ja1484 wrote: angry wrote: shanz wrote: this kinda of thread drives me back to drinking. Is 100 bucks or less really worth human life? Damn maybe instead of posting here the the time could be better spent - hell burger king at minimum wage pays enough that a new harness could be bought for less than 2 days worth of work at a job. Of course there swallowing pride flipping burgers or letting go of the old harness to save your ass "decline of the human race = not having a small amount of common sense" When the OP does decide to retire it, he should send it in to Adatesman to pull it apart. Who wants to wager what it'll hold. My money is at 15kn. I betcha it does 21.
What's that thing rated at? 15kn was just a guess.
Whatever it's rated at, is what it's going to break at. That thing doesn't have any real damage.
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shoo
May 9, 2008, 3:19 AM
Post #59 of 74
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angry wrote: What's that thing rated at? 15kn was just a guess. Whatever it's rated at, is what it's going to break at. That thing doesn't have any real damage.
The rating is not the expected breaking strength. Most climbing gear is rated such that 99.87% of all pieces of gear is expected to fail ABOVE the rated strength.
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ja1484
May 9, 2008, 12:04 PM
Post #60 of 74
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angry wrote: ja1484 wrote: angry wrote: shanz wrote: this kinda of thread drives me back to drinking. Is 100 bucks or less really worth human life? Damn maybe instead of posting here the the time could be better spent - hell burger king at minimum wage pays enough that a new harness could be bought for less than 2 days worth of work at a job. Of course there swallowing pride flipping burgers or letting go of the old harness to save your ass "decline of the human race = not having a small amount of common sense" When the OP does decide to retire it, he should send it in to Adatesman to pull it apart. Who wants to wager what it'll hold. My money is at 15kn. I betcha it does 21. What's that thing rated at? 15kn was just a guess. Whatever it's rated at, is what it's going to break at. That thing doesn't have any real damage.
To get the CE cert, belay loops have to do 15kN. According to KP over at BD though, their historical average is around 25kN, and other major manufacturers are in the same ballpark.
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jungle_george
May 9, 2008, 1:56 PM
Post #61 of 74
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Wow - I got quite a few responses on this topic. It's interesting how much these threads wander...
I liked zeke_sf's comment about the teary eyes and how I must be the worst person in the world [sic]. I actually laughed when I read that this morning. That was great - thanks for brightening up my day.
I also liked the comment from someone else (already forgot who) suggesting that I was bad belayer, and that I was soloing because no one wanted to climb with me. This was also pretty funny - apparently this guy has never had trouble finding a partner willing to do laps on a crack for several hours. Also funny because it's the internet and you know virtually nothing about me - in fact, for all you know I could show up on Dateline next week.
Anyways, thanks for the posts. I found maybe 4 of the ~60 useful, so I guess for RC.com that's a pretty good ratio.
I did contact Metolius, and am waiting for a response.
I'll be living in the Valley for several weeks this fall doing some walls and/or heavy drinking depending on weather. If you're looking for a good time it should be pretty easy to find me - I'll be the tall Texan either climbing hard with a torn belay loop, or staggering around Camp 4 with a King Cobra in hand. :)
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cracklover
May 9, 2008, 2:17 PM
Post #62 of 74
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Jungle George - you're all right. Got a good head on your shoulders. It seems a lot of good people come out of Texas. Thanks for breaking the stereotype.
GO
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billcoe_
May 9, 2008, 2:20 PM
Post #63 of 74
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There could very well be a battery acid issue, and your harness may be trash, and very weak. Whatever caused this shouldn't be ignored, and you might really think about where your gear has been, including your rope. Wash the harness immediately as well. This isn't common nor normal.
Back in the day, everyone made due. There is nothing wrong with backing it up and being thrifty. I get belayed regularly on a harness older than most of you on this board (thing might be 30 years old). So friggan what? Dude puts a biner through his leg loops and swami, which is 6" wide and still in perfect condition.
I've known 2 people who sewed their own harnesses. One guy on his moms sewing machine, I begged him for a year to just buy one, and he did when he took a 50-60 footer on the old shitrat that was his home made job. How do you think this stuff was invented? Some just putting it together in his garage usually.
Lighten up on the OP. George, just tie a friggan loop of webbing. Fish has some supertape, stronger than normal 9/16, or use 1", OR a large carabiner and forget about it. I'd be eyeballing the biner real seriously.
One harness breaking the in history of harnesses is not something to worry over. Worry about your ropes, biners etc etc.
Thats my thoughts.
(This post was edited by billcoe_ on May 12, 2008, 2:42 AM)
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avalon420
May 10, 2008, 3:33 AM
Post #64 of 74
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nh_ranger wrote: How much is your life worth to you?
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curt
May 10, 2008, 3:48 AM
Post #65 of 74
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jungle_george wrote: Monday I was self belaying w/a Gri-Gri and clove backup to my leg loop. Doing laps on a hand crack with a 30 lb pack on, got tired after a few laps and popped out with about 4 ft. of slack in the system. The Gri-Gri caught me no prob, but when it caught I heard a loud "SNAP". Looked down and saw my belay loop was ripped about 1/5 of the way through. I'm not sure how this happened exactly, but I can think of a number of ways. I'm not looking for reasons this happened. Here's what I need advice on: I've kind of turned into a cheap-o as of late (i.e. don't want a new harness), and am looking for ways to back up the belay loop that aren't bulky. I'm thinking about a loop of 9/16" webbing tied with a water knot. To keep the ends of the water knot from creeping I don't want to tie df knots as they're way too bulky. I was thinking about pulling out the sewing machine and putting in a bar tack on each end with a super fine needle that won't cut the webbing threads. So the water knot would keep the webbing loop tied, but the bar tacks would just keep the ends from creeping toward the knot. So I would have 2 belay loops on my harness, the semi-torn one and this backup. Bad idea, good idea, what? I've also thought about using a loop of Titan cord tied with a tf, but they don't sell that stuff around here, I don't want to spend more money, and I've already got spare 9/16" webbing.
Why change anything? Assuming you haven't yet contributed to the gene pool, all is good.
Curt
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austin.timm
May 10, 2008, 4:24 AM
Post #66 of 74
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My god man. If your harness was in bad enough shape for that loop to tear to begin with then chances are other parts of your harness are also failing unbenounced to you.
A webbing tie-off is a quick fix intended for use on a big wall or an alpine climb where you absolutely can't avoid the problem.
You need a new harness, otherwise we'll be reading about you in the 2008 edition of Accidents in North American Mountaineering...
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zeke_sf
May 10, 2008, 4:38 AM
Post #67 of 74
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austin.timm wrote: My god man. If your harness was in bad enough shape for that loop to tear to begin with then chances are other parts of your harness are also failing unbenounced to you. A webbing tie-off is a quick fix intended for use on a big wall or an alpine climb where you absolutely can't avoid the problem. You need a new harness, otherwise we'll be reading about you in the 2008 edition of Accidents in North American Mountaineering...
I nou what you're saying. Although, the same post you've all rephrased a slightly different way is getting quite boring. Heck, I see the guy in here who relied on a single water knot that failed whipping this poor guy who at least wants to back up a still strong belay loop. Does the dumbass who fell on an improper water knot want to raise his hand and still pretend he's an expert?
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j_ung
May 11, 2008, 2:10 PM
Post #68 of 74
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go_dyno
May 11, 2008, 7:24 PM
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Austin Timm has summed up the situation accurately and succinctly. There is a strong possibility that what many of you believe seems like a strong, yet slightly damaged belay loop could have been damaged by chemicals, off-gassing of something, etc. The fact is that Jungle Guy has said he does NOT really know. If you absolutely knew for certain what caused the belay loop damage, then maybe you would have a still ridiculous argument, but you do NOT know for certain and God (or for you Pagan's...your harness) has fortunately given you a warning. Listen to it. If you want to look the hardcore dirtbag climber carry all your gear in a brown paper sack with the corners duct taped but get a new harness!
I have one harness that has a backup parallel belay loop I put on it, but it was not to backup a questionable belay loop, but to supplement a very burly belay loop and thus have full redundancy in my safety system because I have to climb with an astronomical amount of weight sometimes for work.
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irregularpanda
May 11, 2008, 8:19 PM
Post #70 of 74
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angry wrote: "You not know what real problem is, me smart!!"
Hehehe
Consider this joke stolen.
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zeke_sf
May 12, 2008, 12:39 AM
Post #71 of 74
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People are rending their hair and garments now, OP! When, OH LAWD, when are you going to replace your harness! I'm crying the real tears for you and shitting small spurts of rage over this. Please get a new harness?
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jungle_george
May 12, 2008, 9:37 PM
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FYI - final update so this thread can die. The harness is now on it's way to oregon to see the Metolius folks. They're gonna inspect it and, if they feel it's in good enough shape, sew me a new belay loop. They've been awesome - what a great company.
Final note - not sure where the battery acid idea came from, but my harness has never been in contact with battery acid. I already said what caused the tear, and it had nothing to do with chemical damage. Battery acid, seriously? How on earth can this be more plausible than what I described?
Anyways, thanks to the people who suggested I send it back to Metolius - I wasn't originally going to do this. I feel the webbing backup would have worked just fine, but this way I get a brand new belay loop. So I'll be climbing in an old bod harness until I get it back in a couple of weeks.
Also thanks to the people who've offered me deals on new harnesses - should Metolius tell me to retire the harness (not likely, it's in great shape), I'll definitely be in contact.
Peace.
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billcoe_
May 12, 2008, 11:53 PM
Post #73 of 74
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Well, you can ask the guy who said his rope had never come in contact with battery acid, then it broke in two pieces at the climbing gym when bro took a small test lead fall on it.
Initially, like you, they blamed the biner...till testing proved otherwise and sulfuric acid was conclusively determined to be the cause. Dude still maintained he'd kept it in a rope bag blah blah. Except ...well......maybe ONCE he'd put it on the road to open his car door without the bag after climbing and it wasn't in the bag....
No joke. think it over...
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zeke_sf
May 13, 2008, 7:51 PM
Post #74 of 74
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billcoe_ wrote: Well, you can ask the guy who said his rope had never come in contact with battery acid, then it broke in two pieces at the climbing gym when bro took a small test lead fall on it. Initially, like you, they blamed the biner...till testing proved otherwise and sulfuric acid was conclusively determined to be the cause. Dude still maintained he'd kept it in a rope bag blah blah. Except ...well......maybe ONCE he'd put it on the road to open his car door without the bag after climbing and it wasn't in the bag.... No joke. think it over...
Did you even read the post just above yours, or are you just not done crying the real tears? The point is moot, duder.
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